Winterhaven Capsule Hotels
- Thread starter Korgoth
- Start date
fuzzlewump
Explorer
High population and being a point of light aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, a point of light having a high population makes much more sense then the alternative, because the people who would have been living alone in the country or in a tiny village or whatever are now packed into a city for shelter and safety because of the 'world of darkness.'
As far as the specifics of Winterhaven, yeah I'm thinking the walls extend around many cottages that make up the general population, but I have no idea, in fact I didn't know they released the population of Winterhaven.
As far as the specifics of Winterhaven, yeah I'm thinking the walls extend around many cottages that make up the general population, but I have no idea, in fact I didn't know they released the population of Winterhaven.
1) Midieval cultures tend to be agricultural; these inspire large families, and multi-generation houses. A farmhouse could have a set of grandparents, a set of parents, and ~4-5 kids, easy. Add in a farm hand, and that's 10... put a bunch of those around the city.
They suggested 11 buildings were random structures; often business people live in their work buildings; the blacksmith lives not in the forge itself, but in an attached living area; as do his apprentice(s). Same for the baker, the priest, the general store owner, etc. If the church is 1 building, that's 10 buildings with ~5-10 occupants, and 6 houses, with 5-10 occupants... Even at max, that's 150 +priest and acolyte(s) in the town proper. That leaves 800 people to make up... which is quite a few.
Then again, in a story I read recently, the master/apprentice ratio was more like 1/20. Master had 2 senior apprentices, 8 midling apprentices, and ~10 noobs. Also had a couple other adults helping manage the crowd; a cook, a teacher, etc. Took in 8 year olds, taught them reading, writing, math, and thier trade(gemcutting), released them 9 years later as journeymen.. the ones who stayed that long. Only 2 made it out of each yearly n00b class of 10. Others moved to less prestigious shops.
So if some of those random buildings are craft-shops like that... we're still short a bunch. Eighty out-lying farms seems like a LOT for a village. Even 40 seems like a lot; and 20 people on a farm seems like it'd be... cozy; and I thought all adventurers came from farms where they were raised by their parents alone, and half the time one of them was already dead, too.
They suggested 11 buildings were random structures; often business people live in their work buildings; the blacksmith lives not in the forge itself, but in an attached living area; as do his apprentice(s). Same for the baker, the priest, the general store owner, etc. If the church is 1 building, that's 10 buildings with ~5-10 occupants, and 6 houses, with 5-10 occupants... Even at max, that's 150 +priest and acolyte(s) in the town proper. That leaves 800 people to make up... which is quite a few.
Then again, in a story I read recently, the master/apprentice ratio was more like 1/20. Master had 2 senior apprentices, 8 midling apprentices, and ~10 noobs. Also had a couple other adults helping manage the crowd; a cook, a teacher, etc. Took in 8 year olds, taught them reading, writing, math, and thier trade(gemcutting), released them 9 years later as journeymen.. the ones who stayed that long. Only 2 made it out of each yearly n00b class of 10. Others moved to less prestigious shops.
So if some of those random buildings are craft-shops like that... we're still short a bunch. Eighty out-lying farms seems like a LOT for a village. Even 40 seems like a lot; and 20 people on a farm seems like it'd be... cozy; and I thought all adventurers came from farms where they were raised by their parents alone, and half the time one of them was already dead, too.
Wolfspider
Explorer
Korgoth said:
977 people in 17 buildings?
Wow....
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Daniel D. Fox
Explorer
The seventeen buildings depict notable places within the township. It's safe to assume the remainder of the township lives in cottages spread out around the town proper.
spunky_mutters
First Post
Here's how it breaks down:
40-50 Merchants and townsfolk (in the 17 buildings)
100-150 Farmers and their families in the outlying area
800 cultists of Orcus in the sewers and catacombs beneath the town.
40-50 Merchants and townsfolk (in the 17 buildings)
100-150 Farmers and their families in the outlying area
800 cultists of Orcus in the sewers and catacombs beneath the town.
Wolfspider
Explorer
spunky_mutters said:
LMAO!
The description explicitly mentioned thatched-roof buildings in the surrounding area.
As noted above, a points-of-light setting is much more true to human survival behaviors that much of the industrialized West moved away from in the last 100-200 years. Multi-generational households are still the Rule in much of the world, not the Exception.
High infant mortality coupled with shoddy property rights meant that the only hedge against infirmity in old age is having as many children as you could and hoping enough survived to adulthood. Even in a slightly less severe setting with some healing magic in play, you'd still look at families shooting for half a dozen children, easy. Children don't just abandon their younger siblings and parents to die when they get old enough to ply a trade either.
So yeah, 8-12 people living in a home is pretty much par for the course.
80 families is a population of roughly 800 in about 80 homes - that's about the scale of, say two copies of the original Plimoth Plantation mashed together - albeit with larger cottages as the original Plimoth Planters didn't have so many surviving children make the journey as you'd expect an established D&D town to have.
These days, folks move from place to place, live in apartments, and often don't get to know their neighbors even after buying a home - but 80 families actually isn't a whole lot of people when you spend 30+ years living among the same folk.
- Marty Lund
As noted above, a points-of-light setting is much more true to human survival behaviors that much of the industrialized West moved away from in the last 100-200 years. Multi-generational households are still the Rule in much of the world, not the Exception.
High infant mortality coupled with shoddy property rights meant that the only hedge against infirmity in old age is having as many children as you could and hoping enough survived to adulthood. Even in a slightly less severe setting with some healing magic in play, you'd still look at families shooting for half a dozen children, easy. Children don't just abandon their younger siblings and parents to die when they get old enough to ply a trade either.
So yeah, 8-12 people living in a home is pretty much par for the course.
80 families is a population of roughly 800 in about 80 homes - that's about the scale of, say two copies of the original Plimoth Plantation mashed together - albeit with larger cottages as the original Plimoth Planters didn't have so many surviving children make the journey as you'd expect an established D&D town to have.
These days, folks move from place to place, live in apartments, and often don't get to know their neighbors even after buying a home - but 80 families actually isn't a whole lot of people when you spend 30+ years living among the same folk.
- Marty Lund
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Ghaerdon Fain
Explorer
LOL I was gonna say something when I saw the numbers but was just too darn shy. I think the numbers aren't reflective of the buildings mentioned. No matter how we justify the merchants and their helpers, 50 ppl in a building is alot and would need to be massive. I could believe it if the outskirts had many many more buildings.
