wish spell rules?

[Three_Haligonians]

My GM uses a house rule when dealing with the wish spell. In his world, using a wish spell is almost always a monkey's paw thing. For instance, in one of his games, my character wished for a horn from the efreet I had summoned with a ring. I didn't realise it was compelled by the wish spell until after my first wish. I had to make two more wishes to dismiss it, and I was so scared of the effects of the wish spell that I wished for the same thing twice more, saying it in exactly the same words ("what I need is ONE of your horns"). I got the one horn, and the efreet was dismissed.

The monkey's paw problem came into effect the next day. I used the horn in a spell, and immediately after I developed a compulsive need for that particular efreet's horn (the idea being I had wished for the need for the efreet's horn by saying "I NEED"). Because I had no desire to travel to the elemental plane of fire to chop off the efreet's other horn (he was mad enough already), I speculated about using another wish spell to cancel the effects of the second and third wishes I had made.

The GM said this was likely to produce even more disastrous effects. After all, it was because I had used a wish spell in the first place that put me in this situation. At this point I rebelled, because one of the standard uses of a wish spell is to remove injuries and afflictions. I like the wish spell being dangerous when wishing for something outside the standard uses of the spell, but because the wish spell is used as a counter spell for so many other spells, I didn't think it was fair to make the standard uses of wish dangerous. I am worried that this will make the spells that have wish/miracle listed as their only counter spell more powerful, as wish is unreliable.

It's important to note that my GM is unsure as to how he wants to proceed with the spell. We both like the monkey's paw part, but we don't want to throw off game balance. I suggest breaking the wish spell into different spells, one with the standard uses listed in the PH, and one that allows the player to ask for anything, with the drawback being it will likely not be as the caster intended.

This is what we're most interested in solving, so my question to you is how would you deal with the wish spell in this situation, game mechanics wise? We've already resolved the efreet horn thing, so I'm not interested in that, but we want to come up with a clear house rule for wish, so that in the future we won't have to argue about it.

R from Three Haligonians

 

[Raven Crowking]

IMC, every wish or miracle has a source, and that source determines how the wish is fullfilled. A wish granted by a demon is unlikely to go well, no matter what you wish for, whereas a miracle granted by a lawful good god is unlikely to inflict serious injury to the innocent, no matter how you word it. Most high-level arcane spellcasters have their wishes granted based upon their own alignment (and, hence, their connection to the fundamental magic of the world). Are you chaotic? Your wishes are likely to have little side-effects (fey influence). Are you evil? Your wishes are likely to be tied to the lower planes. Thus, the creator of a wish-granting magical item is an important piece of information to have before you use it.

Standard wishes should have standard effects. However, you should still have to be careful how you word the wish to make sure that you are, in fact, making a standard wish.

Your DM is right to suggest that there could be disasterous consequences to undoing both the second and third wishes, because this would also undo your having the horn, which you used in a spell. What you really want to do is "wish to no longer have the compulsive need for that efreet's horn, another efreet's horn, or any other compusive need, without undoing any other positive effect from your previous wishes, and without introducing any other alteration, complication, and/or effect not specifically requested by you." Good luck.

Raven Crowking

 

[Vrecknidj]

When I DM characters who use wishes, I only worry about things like this when there are problems with the wish itself. If a player wishes for all the gold in the world, there will be problems. If a player's wish doesn't go beyond what the PHB allows, I usually don't bother with throwing in all kinds of fine print exceptions and exclusions and all that.

Dave

 

[Humanophile]

Well, we thought Foresight (+2 to AC and saves, plus uncanny dodge for a ninth level spell) was pretty crummy, but now you get to pay 5000 XP for the right to bend over and grab your ankles, I think Wish takes the cake as the worst spell in the game.

Really now. A cursed wish item might be a good monkey's paw, but when you're closing in on 20th level and paying a good chunk of your hard-earned XP, well, wish specifically states that things on its list are safe. The drawback is simply for when one gets greedy and tries to outdo what a "mere" ninth-level spell should be capable of. When a character casts one and knows his limitations, he shouldn't have too much hassle.

Besides, monkey-paw wishes create wish-lawyers, which makes for lovely times as the player has to create quasi-legal documentation for what should be a simple matter.

 

[FireLance]

Why is there even an issue? There is a list of perfectly good uses for wish right there in the description of the spell. After the uses are listed, the spell description goes on to say (emphasis mine):

You may try to use a wish to produce greater effects than these, but doing so is dangerous. (The wish may pervert your intent into a literal but undesirable fulfillment or only a partial fulfillment.)

Not to get all rules-lawyery about it, but you should only get a monkey's paw problem if the effect you've asked for is not listed and greater than those that are.

This may call for some house-ruling on the part of your DM, e.g. what is the market price of an efreet's horn. Any item that costs less than 25,000 gp should be obtained hassle-free. Note that unlike 3.0e, there is no gp limit stated for creating or enhancing a magic item. I would thus use the same gp limit as for non-magic items.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Ah, well, I'm still using 3.0.

 

[shilsen]

The DM's Rules for Handling Wishes:

1) Thou shalt work with the player to come up with a reasonable wish
2) Thou shalt not bend and manipulate the wish to screw the player just because thou canst
3) Reread 2, thou doofus

 

[aurance]

The DM's Rules for Handling Wishes:

1) Thou shalt work with the player to come up with a reasonable wish
2) Thou shalt not bend and manipulate the wish to screw the player just because thou canst
3) Reread 2, thou doofus

I agree. When you cast a wish, you should expect a beneficial effect approximately equivalent to what a 9th level spell can do. If all it creates is baggage and problems, why cast it at all?

 

[FireLance]

I agree. When you cast a wish, you should expect a beneficial effect approximately equivalent to what a 9th level spell can do.

I'd go one step further. You should expect a beneficial effect approximately equivalent to what a 9th level spell that costs you 5,000 xp to cast can do.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Especially remembering that 5000xps is more than a quarter of what you need for your whole next level!

I think your DM sounds like he's acting stupidly, to be honest (unless there is something we don't know - e.g. if you summoned the Efreet from a wing and it was the Efreet that granted the wish... then it might want to pervert the wish.

If you are casting wish spells then the three wish spells set you back 15,000xps (!). You could have been 2000xp off 18th level and suddenly be right back at the base of 17th. There is a heck of a lot of combat that has to go on to get those 15,000xp back