Wish spells

[Al]

The problem with the 'twist it' interpretation is that it still leaves the notion that a perfectly drafted wish would have the power to kill a god or whatever. For example, if a top contract lawyer were to join your gaming group and draft a 30-page draft wish with no inconsistencies, loopholes or exploits...

If a wish is unreasonable, then the granter should either twist it (if possible), but if not, should grant some small portion of the wish, if possible- for example, if a perfectly crafted wish for 1 million gp is made, only 15,000gp are given. If it cannot be twisted or diminished, it simply fails.

 

[sithramir]

Like in the book where Vanderghast wished the red dragon to be gone and so it was teleported to a battle and killed all his good friends. You can always take things literally.

 

[TheTaxMan]

I would say that if they do wish for the moon and you can't figure out a way to contort it into your game, it's always a possibilty to let them have it until you can think of what this means in terms of your game. The obvious example is a githyanki silver sword. Give it to them. Let them deal with what happens later (possibly not that much later). Besides, once they're out of the efreeti's hair (or flames, or what have you) I'm sure it will likely make things as difficult as possible for them.

DM: You see a strange flash and a group of githyanki stand before you. Beside them is the efreeti you chained up, pointing and laughing! Roll for initiative!

Of course, you may not want to end the campaign in one fell swoop Adjust accordingly.

 

[Pax]

The problem with the 'twist it' interpretation is that it still leaves the notion that a perfectly drafted wish would have the power to kill a god or whatever. For example, if a top contract lawyer were to join your gaming group and draft a 30-page draft wish with no inconsistencies, loopholes or exploits...

Then I would calmly take the contract, walk over to teh fireplace ... and burn it. Then tell them "In ten words or less, why in the nine hells should I not blast your characters to irretrievable flinders for hte audacity of such blatant metagaming-whoring ... ?"

Some other examples of twisting the "I wish god X was dead". Munchikles and companions, great heroes of the Greek people, decide that Zeus has meddled in their affairs one time too many. Finally having gained access to a wish, Munchikles and his compatriots, in a single voice, wish for Zeus to be killed.

Negative Outcome A: Kronos returns, eats Zeus and all the other greek gods, and in a fit of indigestion, lays horrible waste to the campaign world. The wish-granter, just before he's sucked up by Kronos as an after-dinner mint, leaves Munchikles and friends with one parting comment: "Yeah, that was one real smart move, idiots!"

I call this the "take the campaign world with 'em" solution. Not much fun for anyone involved.

Negative outcome B: Munchikles and friends are hurtled far into the future, the passing of the ages inexorably draining themof their vast, munchkinly power. They reappear in a new world; the pathenon lays in ruins on the Akropolis above them ... and they get run over by a friggin' tour bus full of obnoxious, hawaiian-shirt-wearing, camera-wielding vacationers.

I call this the "Your wish is granted .... suker!" solution. Not much fun for the playes of Munchikles and friends, but potentially GREAT fun for the GM. All their magic doodads don't work anymore, and they've all be turned into first-level commoners. With minimum hitpoints, owing to the lack of proper modern medical care during their formative years, er, aeons.

I don't care how ironclad a contract is, nothing is foolproof. (or there wouldn't BE contract lawyers, now, would there?)

 

[Croaker]

Another way to deal with Wishes is to use the "Path of Least Resistance" school of thought: the Wish granter (or the powers of magic itself) apply the minimum amount of effort to achieve the result. Unless carefully worded, a demand for a greater intellect results in Fox's Cunning being cast on the subject, since one of Wish 's abilities is to mimic lower-level spells (heck, toss in an Extend or, if 3.0, Empower for free!) Wishing for a greater god's death is easily fulfilled (at least in any cosmology where it is technically possible for gods to die) since eventually even a greater god will reach the end of its existence, at least when the universe itself burns out. To be extra nice, Imprison the wisher so they can be around to see the end. And, in almost all cases it is easier to send the wisher (because they are willingly accepting the results of the spell) to whatever it is they want than it is to bring things to them. Whether their allies or equipment goes with them is up to the whim of the creature granting the Wish .

 

[Bauglir]

The trouble with a lot of these twists is that you give what is wished for, then more that is not wished for (which seems a bit arbitrary). To me, in order to properly twist it you need to work only with what you've been given.

Note also that wishing for too much does not have to result in bad things happening. It may simply not work as expected. Remember that 5000xp (or the chance at a wish) wasted is plenty bad enough.

"I wish I held the hand of vecna"

The caster appears standing next to a bemused Vecna, holding his right hand.

In the case of wishing for artifacts, let them have the artifact. Chances are its original owners can track it down under their own power, without needing to be zapped there by the wish..

Wishing for the death of a greater god? That one's a bit trickier. Maybe said god Wished eons ago that he might never be killed by a Wish, and so the Wish fails.

Personally I approach it by having the Wish automatically apply other spells in an attempt to get the job done.

"I wish to hold the sword of Kas"

Discern Location to find the sword
Plane Shift then Teleport to place the caster within reach of the sword.

If any of these spells don't work for some reason (perhaps the sword is protected from divinations somehow?) then the wish will fail.

 

[Tzarevitch]

Play Al-Qadim with a good DM sometime. It is ALWAYS possible to twist a wish. Read the classic short story about the monkey's paw wishes.

An angry efreet is a terrible thing. Remember IT is the one bringing about the effect of the wish not the PCs. A PC casting the spell himself is one thing, an angry efreet invoking the power FOR you is quite another. If the was shackled and forced to use its wishes it can easily interpret the requests to produce the worst possible result for the PCs and make sure they suffer for every last wish they wring out of it.

If the PCs wish for an artifact, sent them to the most malevolent artifact possible. If they wish for a specific artifact to be brought to them, drop it AND the castle it is kept in on their heads.

If the PCs want a direct benefit of a wish they have to forego any saving throw. If the PCs demand Stat increases, wish them into the Hideous Transformatron created by Bob the Mad Wizard for example. The Transformatron increases stats by penalizing Charisma. Increasing Strength turns the character into a musclebound mutant, increasing Int causes the brain cavity to expand to the size of a watermelon and pulse ominously.

Note also that it is very easy for an efreet to interpret a wish to free itself from most any bondage on the pretext that it is the vehicle to carry out the wish.

Tzarevitch

 

[Bauglir]

I disagree. If every efreeti wish was deliberately misinterpreted in such a vulgar way (even the more mundane ones) then that reputation would spread, and noone would bother to go after them for wishes. Which is a shame, as having the party hunt an efreet for a needed wish is a great story hook..

If a subdued efreet is compelled to grant wishes, then I see no reason why it should not be compelled to grant them properly.

 

[LokiDR]

Play Al-Qadim with a good DM sometime. It is ALWAYS possible to twist a wish. Read the classic short story about the monkey's paw wishes.

An angry efreet is a terrible thing. Remember IT is the one bringing about the effect of the wish not the PCs. A PC casting the spell himself is one thing, an angry efreet invoking the power FOR you is quite another. If the was shackled and forced to use its wishes it can easily interpret the requests to produce the worst possible result for the PCs and make sure they suffer for every last wish they wring out of it.

If the PCs wish for an artifact, sent them to the most malevolent artifact possible. If they wish for a specific artifact to be brought to them, drop it AND the castle it is kept in on their heads.

If the PCs want a direct benefit of a wish they have to forego any saving throw. If the PCs demand Stat increases, wish them into the Hideous Transformatron created by Bob the Mad Wizard for example. The Transformatron increases stats by penalizing Charisma. Increasing Strength turns the character into a musclebound mutant, increasing Int causes the brain cavity to expand to the size of a watermelon and pulse ominously.

Note also that it is very easy for an efreet to interpret a wish to free itself from most any bondage on the pretext that it is the vehicle to carry out the wish.

Tzarevitch

This is one of the reasons I got fed up with 2nd ed. If you managed to get a wish and you say "I wish I was smarter" should be a +1 inherent bonus to inteligence. A simple wish should not be twisted if it is in the power of the wish. It was reasoning like yours that made GMs the enemy of the players. When the players accomplish enough to get something as powerful as a wish they should not be punished unless they try to push their luck.

 

[AuraSeer]

When the players accomplish enough to get something as powerful as a wish they should not be punished unless they try to push their luck.

Quite so. The good thing about 3E is that it specifies exactly what "pushing their luck" means. The effects listed in the spell description are safe, but anything else is subject to varying levels of screwage.