Wish vs. Miracle

[LGodamus]

they way i do the wish screwing is this:

There is no screwing if the PC casts the spell or uses a spell storing item:IE ring of wishes...he is using his own raw power to get what he wants..

the screwing comes in when you get a powerfull creature to "grant" your wish says a genie that is bound ...no one likes being bound so they stick to the wording but add in the screwing as extra to pay for binding them, the only other screwing comes in when trying to get wishes from a sentient evil item.......if they take one of these wishes they deserve what they get

 

[James McMurray]

The only time I have twisted wishes when running is if a) the grantor is evil or chaotic and b) the wish does not go along with the grantor's goals.

For example, while running Return tot he Temple of Elemental Evil (3.0 style) the party found an efreet and freed it in exchange for 3 wishes. The first one had the party wishing for an item that could hurt the demi-lich they were going to have to fight. The efreet was pretty pissed at the demi-lich for capturing it, so it granted the wish tot he best of its abilities by creatinga mace that would explode (not damaging the wielder) when it his the lich. It was basically a one-shot +5 weapon.

The second wish was to move a statue that was covering a concealed door. The party was afraid that it was trapped or that the thing would animate if they got near it. The efreet quickly granted the wish, by teleporting the statue 1,000 miles away, and approiately one mile in the air above a temple of Pelor. The party got what they wanted, the efreet got what it wanted, and nobody in the group even knew they'd been used to kick a god of good in the jewels.

I hav no idea what the third wish was for, but I don't recall screwing the party ver on it, so it must not have been major, or I'm misremembering and there were only two wishes granted.

 

[boofangle]

Why is it that an arcane caster must pay 5,000 xp for using this spell in any form and divine casters only pay the xp for essentially the same spell in certain situations? What game balance issue was being addressed by this?

because wish is more powerful, miracle is better for spell duplication but cant alter reality and do things wish can, but wish has an xp cost and if go to far in the aspect of the wish, can either have repercussions or fail, such as wish for an evil being to be good, possible with wish but depending on how evil they are, how powerful, etc, can fail or backfire, miracle can do none of that but is no xp cost. Wish is for sure the strongest spell in the game, miracle in 2nd tier

 

[boofangle]

As far as flavor goes, you can see the Wish as being a cold, neutral force that grants the casters will by payment, while a Miracle is an allied force willing to grant small powers to their faithful servents.

As far as game balance goes, I think they see Wizards as being more flexablity in their high level spell list compared to a cleric, so this helps add a bit more options to the cleric spell line.

 

[GuardianLurker]

The rules I have for PC wishes back in 2e/3e:
1. The wish must be a single sentence, and can have only one subject and one object. It can have any number of clauses affecting those terms, but a wish can only really do ONE thing.
2. Once you know the spell wish, and you tell me (the DM) you're casting wish, the next sentence you finish using "wish" as a verb is it.
3. If you're using the wish to save yourself/teammates/etc., I'm not going to monkey's paw the wish or twist it in anyway. If, however, in any other manner, the more benefit you gain, the more likely the twist will happen.

As a result, I never had to twist or monkey's paw a single wish, and my players never abused it. The even managed to figure out a simple plug-n-play wish structure that they could use to ad-lib an adequate and safe wish on the fly.

With the new wish spells/rituals, I generally allow spell duplication completely safely. I also tell my players that what's in the book is the base version of the spell - safe, generally covers everything you need, and reasonably priced. But the spell is actually unlimited, but the price increases and safety decreases (both rapidly) once you step beyond those limits. No-one's taken me up on it yet.

 

[aco175]

@boofangle welcome to the boards. I was trying to think of what edition this was for when I noticed it was a 20+ year old thread. Certainly not the oldest one resurrected, and it will linger for a while once again.

When reading the thread, I was thinking of how I play with milestone leveling and I would not know how to track 5,000xp in 5e. We do play that high of a level though, so it has not come up. I'm not even sure there is the cost with the new edition.

 

[Theory of Games]

@boofangle c'mon my guy. Really? Are you making a hobby of posting to twenty year old threads? Before long the entire forum will be filled with them. I know they allow necros here, but

 

[aco175]

@boofangle c'mon my guy. Really? Are you making a hobby of posting to twenty year old threads? Before long the entire forum will be filled with them. I know they allow necros here, but

I give a pass to new members. I find a lot of people have their first post in an old thread. There might be a point though.

 

[Rune]

@boofangle welcome to the boards. I was trying to think of what edition this was for when I noticed it was a 20+ year old thread. Certainly not the oldest one resurrected, and it will linger for a while once again.

Strangely, it’s got the Pathfinder tag, despite predating Pathfinder by 4 years. Surely it should be a 3.5 tag.

 

[aco175]

Strangely, it’s got the Pathfinder tag, despite predating Pathfinder by 4 years. Surely it should be a 3.5 tag.

Maybe they are the same thing? At least in my brain nowadays. Like if I was ever playing one of them and someone wanted to bring a PCs in from the other. I'm guessing it would be fine, but I tend to just play 5e.