Wish

[F5]

I actually agree that Wish is overpowered, especially if you have any intention of using epic spells. If you stick with the standard levels 1-9, Wish being the most powerful spell out there, then it's OK. I still don't like it flavor-wise, but I'll get to that in a bit. If you're doing epic level spells, though, it seems strange to me that a "lower-level" spell has more power to alter the course of reality than the supposedly epic monstosities your 30th level wizard is throwing around.

Really, though, the problem I have with wish is that it doesn't seem mythic enough. In most mythologies where wishes are granted, the wish-granting creature can't grant its' own wishes. Granting a wish is a boon that a powerful creature gives to someone worthy, rather than a tool for the creature itself to do whatever it wants with the cosmos.

That's how I've nerfed the wish spell; you cast it as normal, with the 5000xp hit, but you can only use the spell to grant OTHER PEOPLE'S wishes. Your buddy could wish that you were smarter, you cast the spell, and you get the +1 inherent bonus as your buddy's wish is granted. But you have to trust the other person; you are putting the power entirely in their hands.

Does this work in practice? Couldn't tell you, I've never had a game get into high enough levels where PCs had access to Wish. It works great for NPCs, for what it's worth...

 

[Tewligan]

From the description of Wish:

Read carefully:

" Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to
an ability score. Two to five wish spells
cast in immediate succession can grant a
creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an
ability score (two wishes for a +2
inherent bonus, three for a +3 inherent
bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are
instantaneous, so they cannot be
dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may
not exceed +5 for a single ability score,
and inherent bonuses to a particular
ability score do not stack, so only the
best one applies."

Huh. I never read it that closely, and had no idea it had that restriction. That makes it a lot more reasonable.

 

[Al]

Really, though, the problem I have with wish is that it doesn't seem mythic enough. In most mythologies where wishes are granted, the wish-granting creature can't grant its' own wishes. Granting a wish is a boon that a powerful creature gives to someone worthy, rather than a tool for the creature itself to do whatever it wants with the cosmos.

That's usually, however, because they don't have to take a 5000xp hit in most mythological stories

Seriously though, I don't think that Wish is particularly bad. The only time I can see Wish becoming nasty is with ancient liches who hit 20th level a few millennia ago and have far too much time and xp on their hands. If the Epic Rules are used, however, this takes away this dilemma- xp is *always* useful, all the time.

Wishing is a fine balance between burning XP to gain power, or keeping XP to...er...gain power. The balance of power depends on how wisely the wishes are used.

 

[barsoomcore]

EN World definition of "troll":

Any post written in a such a way as to require a response.

Now, Tom. Just because you suffer the misfortune of being a Rangers fan is no reason to take it out on the rest of us. Bear your curse like a man.

 

[LGodamus]

wish is not overpowered if you take it as written and be extremly judicious with situations other than those covered......if you do it this way you also have no balance probs with epic spells either

 

[candidus_cogitens]

I confess that I did not even realize there was a 5000 point XP cost. That certainly helps to balance things out.

ON THE OTHER HAND, keep in mind that it only takes one balanced encounter for a 20th level party to earn 6000 XP. It sounds like a lot, but it wouldn't hurt THAT bad.

I am really liking F5's suggestion that the spell can only be used to make other's wishes come true. That has a lot more flavor potential. And I love the mythological correctness!

 

[Cedric]

I want to go the other route here. I've always known about the need to cast the wishes in succession to raise stats...and I've always disagreed with it.

I house rule it. Stats raised with wishes can be raised by a total of 5 points per stat...period. No other restrictions. The 5000xp is penalty enough.

I also do not like the fact that I can read the manual of gainful exercise (or whatever it's called in 3rd) for +1 strength. But then if I come across another one later that adds +2 strength. They don't stack. I house rule that as well...and limit them to +5 total per stat...separate from raises occurring through "wishes".

So you could get +5 from wishes and +5 from books/tomes. If they are going to make it so easy to raise people's stats and provide the expanded stats. Then go all the way as far as I am concerned.

I guess I'm just funny though. I'm much more restrictive on the rules in some regards..and less in others.

Cedric