wishing for a permanent skill modifier

[Primitive Screwhead]

No, you are right. It does not mention skill ranks. However, without the meta-game terminology of DnD, would you ever hear someone way "I wish I had the swimming ability.."?
Perhaps "I wish I could swim like a fish" or "I wish I could swim better" or "I wish I still fit into my bikini..... "

what is 'meta' about that statement is that a non-gamer would not phrase the wish in that manner. A gamer, using the lingo of the game, could.

One of the major contentions I have witnessed about Wishes is that it becomes a point where the perception of DM vs Player is highly pronounced. This is why I tend to not have wishes, and when they do exist {due to running a published module} I stick to as clean and literal interpretation as possible.
Even then I have had players destroy a Ring of Wishes simply to keep the other players from making a wish
Of course, my home-brew games don't have any issues with this as the only source of wishes is the ever-famous "I want to make a deal" rule of mine.. go ahead, sell your soul


and incidently... ability is indeed a game term.

 

[Goolpsy]

i think i might use the term ability irl... or more in the lines of abilities... "I wish i had better swimming abilities"
But if i couldn't swim at all; "I wish i had the ability of swimming"

 

[Notmousse]

The other wishes for skills also depend on how they are termed. I beleive a properly worded wish should be fulfilled exactly as wished...meaning that if you can find a way to wish a +40 to a skill without refering to "+40 to a skill"

'I wish I had the swimming capability to swim up waterfalls without chance of failure.'

I believe that's a +80 bonus for a 1st leveler without any ability (0 ranks, 0 modifier) to swim.

'I wish I could balance myself upon the clouds.'

'bout 120 for the same sub-peon.

BTW, why do you screw with people that are shelling out 5k+ XP for a wish?

 

[Question]

Clearly the 5k+ XP is not enough, there must be bad consequences to offset how cheap 5k XP is.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

'I wish I had the swimming capability to swim up waterfalls without chance of failure.'
~ You gain an SU enhancement bonus of +80 to your swim checks usable only when attempting to swim up a waterfall.

'I wish I could balance myself upon the clouds.'
~ You gain the SU ability to walk on clouds as if they are a solid surface.

Both fulfill the stated wish and would allow your character to do really awesome things..
Just imagine the latter coupled with spells that create clouds {Fog}

Neither are very useful abilities in a non-epic game and you would probably say I am screwing you.. despite the fact that the wish fulfills *exactly* what you ask for. The above thread has already shown a tendency to say +25 or +30 to a skills general use is the max a wish should be able to accomplish..this is simply a matter of the wish not having enough ooomph to do what you intend... which is +80 or more to a skills general use.
3.x rules are pretty clear on the Wish having limitations, and pretty clear on what those limitations are...

BTW, why do you screw with people that are shelling out 5k+ XP for a wish?

I don't.
First, I believe Wishes and thier ilk are powerful magics that attempt to fulfill the *stated* desire with the least amount of magical resources. I also see them as being potential plot points... just like every other aspect of the game. Since I do not hide this belief from my players they walk in knowing that a Wish that tests the limits of the spells ability will have to be very very carefully worded while a Wish that is more easily fulfilled only needs careful wording.
Second, most of the Wishes that end up in my game are in Rings or Swords.. so the player is not paying the 5k+ XP..but that doens't really matter
Third, ... why do people assume that GM's that don't lay over and play dead when Wish comes into play is 'screwing' the PC?
Forth, A player in my game gets a Wish.... spends however long they want in crafting said wish, including confering with others, posting on message boards, etc... In game they state thier wish, and in a matter of moments I respond with how the wish becomes reality. In very rare occasions will I require the Wishor to make up the Wish on the spot... drawing the Wish card from a Deck of Many Things is one such case.
Fifth, I do not have a competitive DM vs Player game. My intent as DM is to lay out an enjoyable and entertaining world for the PC's to adventure in....no player in my game has ever complained that I shafted them with a normal Wish.... the other kind of wish..the 'want to make a deal' ones... absolutely.. every time, but for those you have to consider the source


Sixth, since when is enforcing a rule a bad thing?

Lastly... Sorry Bad Paper.. if we haven't answered your question before running of down this rabbit trail, please let us know

 

[Infiniti2000]

First, I believe Wishes and thier ilk are powerful magics ...

They are no more powerful than meteor swarm. Do you attempt to screw your players over when they cast that, or similar-strength, spells?

Second, most of the Wishes that end up in my game are in Rings or Swords.. so the player is not paying the 5k+ XP..but that doens't really matter

I agree, it doesn't matter. If you want to create magic items that are "wish-like" that screw over the user, that's fine. Some items are cursed after all. But, that's decidedly different than a wish cast by a wizard PC.

Third, ... why do people assume that GM's that don't lay over and play dead when Wish comes into play is 'screwing' the PC?

Because DM's like you say things like "'Poof, you have the abliity to swim...{check character sheet....} Yup, right there, you have ranks in the Swim skill....' Of course, I am a First Class RBDM when it comes to wishes." You think you're being a RBDM, but you're not. You're just screwing over the player.

Forth, A player in my game gets a Wish.... spends however long they want in crafting said wish, including confering with others, posting on message boards, etc... In game they state thier wish, and in a matter of moments I respond with how the wish becomes reality. In very rare occasions will I require the Wishor to make up the Wish on the spot... drawing the Wish card from a Deck of Many Things is one such case.

The fact that they have to do all that extra crap sucks. Just ban wishes if you plan to screw over the player for casting his spells.

Fifth, I do not have a competitive DM vs Player game.

I wholly disagree with you, based on what you've written here. You may in fact not be purposefully screwing the players, but my impression from this thread is different. Why do you requires players to be lawyers and not players? Why not just assume that all that excess lawyer-crap is appended to any wish so that the player does not get screwed? I don't see how you're increasing or even maintaining any fun level with your interpretation of the wish spell (based on this thread).

Sixth, since when is enforcing a rule a bad thing?

What rule are you enforcing if the limits of the spell have not been violated? You have no rule support for your plan to screw players over unless they wish "to produce greater effects than these."

 

[Blood Jester]

No, you are right. It does not mention skill ranks. However, without the meta-game terminology of DnD, would you ever hear someone way "I wish I had the swimming ability.."?
Perhaps "I wish I could swim like a fish" or "I wish I could swim better" or "I wish I still fit into my bikini..... "

what is 'meta' about that statement is that a non-gamer would not phrase the wish in that manner. A gamer, using the lingo of the game, could.

...and incidently... ability is indeed a game term.

No, Ability is a common word in the English language (and it's parallels exist in most, if not all languages).

And any Wizard worth a damn is at least a decent linguist, and if they are experienced enough to have mastered 9th level spells, they are knowledgeable enough to advise someone on how to use the language.

And any reasonably intelligent character can be expected to be able to use most common words (such as ability).

I use the word quite regularly, and I am no linguist, nor has anyone offered me a Wish lately.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I2K...
Meteor Swarm is a spell with effects that are clearly defined. The results of the spell match the clearly defined text of the spell.

Wish is a spell where the effects are based on the sentence used by the castor. The results of the spell match the text of the spell.

The difference is in that a poorly written spell similar to Meteor Swarm will get errata'd or HRd, whereas a poorly spoken Wish gets.. well, whatever results match the text of the spell.

Ya.. on review I suppose the above thread could give the impression that I am screwing the players. posit:

You are a player in my game. You find a Ring and determine it has one wish. I, the GM state:"When you activate the ring you must state your wish. The wish must be one sentence, cannot include game terms or the word 'and' and should clearly define exactly what you want the wish to accomplish."

You respond with "I wish for the swimming ability."

Umm. Lets see. Possible game term 'ability', but ignore that for now. What exactly is the clearly defined result that this wish is aiming for? Who knows! This wish does not clearly define what the intended result is. How should a 'good' GM react?

I institute these limitations on the Wish spell specifically to avoid the result of an unclear wish... in other words, these limitations exist so that both the player and myself are clear on what the wish is supposed to accomplish.

Lawyers? Nay. It does not take lawyer speak to define a wish. Check my response to both Notmousse and pawsplay's suggested wishes. Are these responses either out of line with the rules or 'screwing' the player? Did either of them require lawyer-ese?
This side-track started before any-one critiqued my response to the pawsplay regarding how much a Wish could affect a skill...which was the question of the OP. I presume since no-one has pursued that line that my recommendations were close enough to the mark to be acceptable.

Ask for something that falls clearly within what is described in the Wish text.. an increase in strength, call into being an item, duplicate a spell or transport the PC somewhere... all simple wishes. As for wishing for epic level power... well, Wish is not Epic.

I suppose I should have but a couple smiley's behind my off-hand "Poof, {checks character sheet}..." comment. I am a sarcastic person in general and this would be my way of telling the player to define the wish more clearly.... I am not that much of a RBDM to waste the casting/use that way...next time I will include a '... now try again.' if I use that example.
Check Sig quote for reference

What rule are you enforcing if the limits of the spell have not been violated? You have no rule support for your plan to screw players over unless they wish "to produce greater effects than these."

Gee, so many ways to answer that, but none of them look good on-screen
Might just be the day... been a bit testy lately. Sorry 'bout that.
This is yet another case of electronic medium migrating to the extremes. Either I am out to screw the players or I must grant whatever Wish is asked for. Reality, as usual, is a happy compromise between the two extremes... where the players clearly define their wish and the DM respond with what is within the Wish's power to bring into effect..

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

No, Ability is a common word in the English language (and it's parallels exist in most, if not all languages).

and does 'I wish to have the swimming ability' clearly define what the wish is to accomplish?

 

[Blood Jester]

Jus to keep on same page, the quote was "I wish for swimming ability". I would have added "great" in there, but...

Don't you find it odd that you, and most people when they DM from what I have seen over many years, parse every word in a Wish so very closely, looking for any way to hurt the player, and then complain if players spend tons of time to word their wishes more like the Tax Code then like something in a game?

If you play Wishes that way, don't charge the 5K XP. Heck, don't have them in game.

IME, it is just no fun played in the "shaft you" style, since the DM can make the rules, and decides if they want to make any part of what the player says work against them.