Wiz18 Lich vs. four 12th level characters

Even if we accept the somewhat strange premise of a level 18 wizard lich with no magical items, the players are hosed. The lich will naturally have lots of divination spells going to monitor who comes and goes in the castle (along with permanent illusions in lieu of guards). All it's going to take the players is Dimension Door and Time Stop and practically any other spell.

If you're determined to have your players go up against this lich at this time, it would be wise to figure out a way for them to achieve their goals without facing down almost certain death.
 

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I think you'll want to look at:

SRD said:
Guards and Wards
Abjuration
Level: Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 30 minutes
Range: Anywhere within the area to be warded
Area: Up to 200 sq. ft./level (S)
Duration: 2 hours/level (D)

Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: See text

This powerful spell is primarily used to defend your stronghold. The ward protects 200 square feet per caster level. The warded area can be as much as 20 feet high, and shaped as you desire. You can ward several stories of a stronghold by dividing the area among them; you must be somewhere within the area to be warded to cast the spell. The spell creates the following magical effects within the warded area.

Fog: Fog fills all corridors, obscuring all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature within 5 feet has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target). Saving Throw: None. Spell Resistance: No.

Arcane Locks: All doors in the warded area are arcane locked. Saving Throw: None. Spell Resistance: No.

Webs: Webs fill all stairs from top to bottom. These strands are identical with those created by the web spell, except that they regrow in 10 minutes if they are burned or torn away while the guards and wards spell lasts. Saving Throw: Reflex negates; see text for web. Spell Resistance: No.

Confusion: Where there are choices in direction—such as a corridor intersection or side passage—a minor confusion-type effect functions so as to make it 50% probable that intruders believe they are going in the opposite direction from the one they actually chose. This is an enchantment, mind-affecting effect. Saving Throw: None. Spell Resistance: Yes.

Lost Doors: One door per caster level is covered by a silent image to appear as if it were a plain wall. Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with). Spell Resistance: No.

In addition, you can place your choice of one of the following five magical effects.

1. Dancing lights in four corridors. You can designate a simple program that causes the lights to repeat as long as the guards and wards spell lasts. Saving Throw: None. Spell Resistance: No.

2. A magic mouth in two places. Saving Throw: None. Spell Resistance: No.

3. A stinking cloud in two places. The vapors appear in the places you designate; they return within 10 minutes if dispersed by wind while the guards and wards spell lasts. Saving Throw: Fortitude negates; see text for stinking cloud. Spell Resistance: No.

4. A gust of wind in one corridor or room. Saving Throw: Fortitude negates. Spell Resistance: Yes.

5. A suggestion in one place. You select an area of up to 5 feet square, and any creature who enters or passes through the area receives the suggestion mentally. Saving Throw: Will negates. Spell Resistance: Yes.

The whole warded area radiates strong magic of the abjuration school. A dispel magic cast on a specific effect, if successful, removes only that effect. A successful Mage’s disjunction destroys the entire guards and wards effect.

Material Component: Burning incense, a small measure of brimstone and oil, a knotted string, and a small amount of blood.

Focus: A small silver rod.
 

arnwyn said:
As far as I can tell, the lich does not have to be a Wiz18 (and based on the responses on this thread, will likely not be one, either). I'm thinking of adjusting him down to a Wiz15, maybe.
I suggest making the lich an 11th level wizard with gear, which would put him around CR 15 (a tough, but winnable fight). Alternately, I'd make him a 13th-level wizard with no gear, which is perhaps a CR 15 encounter as well. If you insist on making him an 18th-level wizard, which I do not reccommend, you'l have to figure out a way to dumb him down without making it seem like you're throwing the fight. If you play even a naked 18th-level wizard to the hilt, on his home turf, he's going to slaughter the PCs. That's 9th-level spells, dude. A 12th-level party can't handle that.
 

The Guards and Wards idea is another thing.

This guy knows that he's got lots of things people want, for whatever reason. It would make sense for him to put a box in a room with a suggestion planted there, to make people think that whatever they wanted was in the box, and make them liable to just take the box. They leave, he keeps his stuff.
 

ForceUser said:
I suggest making the lich an 11th level wizard with gear, which would put him around CR 15 (a tough, but winnable fight).
Would this not make him CR 13? Wiz11 + 2 for lich template?
Alternately, I'd make him a 13th-level wizard with no gear, which is perhaps a CR 15 encounter as well.
Would this not make him a lower CR than 15 with no gear? Maybe closer to CR 12?
 


arnwyn said:
Would this not make him CR 13? Wiz11 + 2 for lich template?

Would this not make him a lower CR than 15 with no gear? Maybe closer to CR 12?
My bad. For some reason I recalled the lich template as being +4 CR. :)

Either way, a CR 12 or 13 encounter is a fine challenge for four 12th-level characters with level-appropriate gear. You might bump it up to CR 14 if you want to make it really challenging; the thing about a BBEG monster is not how tough he truly is, but how tough the PCs perceive him to be. I scare players of 6th-level characters just fine, for instance, with CR 4 monsters. ;)
 

It saddens me to think that a monster/NPC will be played well beneath its capabilities simply to make it a reasonable challenge for a party. How about instead you just design it as a reasonable challenge and play it to the best of its abilities?
 

Corsair said:
It saddens me to think that a monster/NPC will be played well beneath its capabilities simply to make it a reasonable challenge for a party. How about instead you just design it as a reasonable challenge and play it to the best of its abilities?
That's one of the points of me starting this thread... ;)
 

Remember that a lich's paralysis ability is REALLY nasty, and he'll be smart enough to recognize clerics who can remove it. A set of spells that lets him touch characters in rapid succession (preferably without getting smacked too much -- give him Improved Unarmed Combat, or whatever it's called today) can leave them all helpless and ready to have their throats cut at his leisure.

Honestly, your players should come up with a non-combat way to resolve all of this if they intend to live.
 

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