Wizard Confusion

[ForbidenMaster]

I do not think you can prepare both level 1 spells.

I think customer service stated that this was not allowed (and I suspect it will be clarified in errata later on).

It has already been clarified in the FAQ:

8. Can a 5th level wizard memorize two 5th level daily spells instead of a 1st and a 5th level daily spell?

At the end of each long rest, a wizard prepares one 1st-level Daily spell chosen from the list of 1st level daily spells in her spellbook. If she were at least 2nd level, she would also prepare one 2nd-level utility spell chosen from the list of 2nd-level utility spells in her spellbook. At 5th level she would also prepare one 5th-level daily spell from her list of 5th-level daily spells in her spellbook. She would repeat this process for every level that she has access to wizard daily or utility spells. She could not, as a 5th-level wizard, prepare a second 5th-level daily spell in place of a daily spell of a different level.

http://wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin...Xh0PXBsYXllcnMgaGFuZGJvb2s*&p_li=&p_topview=1

In other words, as a wizard you gain access to multiple daily spells, however you can only ever prepare spells in the same way as if you were any other class. You get one first level daily, one second level utility, one 5th level daily, etc.

 

[Xzylvador]

Best table is in Chapter 8 of the... DMG. Ironic, I know.
But there is a nice list in there which mentions the amount and the level of "slots" available to all classes. (At lvl30 this is like lvl 19,25,29+paragon dailies or something like that).
Sorry, don't have the books here so I can't post the page number.

 

[bjorn2bwild]

FFS. You are totally conflicting.

When is the next errata update?

Actually, although worded differently, the message from both of their posts is the same.

As a wizard at level 6 you will have, in your spellbook, for dailies, two 5th level spells and two 1st level spells.

After an extended rest, you have two slots to fill, one fifth level spell slot and one first level spell slot.

You can use the 5th level spell slot to prepare any of the 4 daily spells in your book (either of the two 5th level spells or one of the two 1st level spells). This is possible because you can fill the slot with any daily spell of that level or lower.

However, for the 1st level spell slot, you may only fill it with either of the first level spells. You cannot fill it with any spells of a higher level, so no 5th level spells.

It's very similar to preparing spells in previous editions of DnD. The only caveat now is that you cannot prepare any spell more than once.

 

[KarinsDad]

You can use the 5th level spell slot to prepare any of the 4 daily spells in your book (either of the two 5th level spells or one of the two 1st level spells). This is possible because you can fill the slot with any daily spell of that level or lower.

No, this is incorrect.

One can ACQUIRE any 5th or lower level spell when acquiring 5th-level daily spells.

So, one could acquire two 1st level spells for the first level acquisition and one could acquire one 1st level and one 5th level spell for the fifth level acquisition.

When preparing, the first level spell has to be one of the two acquired for that first level slot. The fifth level spell has to be one of the two acquired for that fifth level slot (in this example, a first level and a fifth level spell).

But, one cannot move a first level spell acquired for the first level slot up to the fifth level slot.

From the FAQ:

She could not, as a 5th-level wizard, prepare a second 5th-level daily spell in place of a daily spell of a different level.

So, she could not prepare a 5th-level daily spell in a higher level daily slot.

 

[Tale]

From the FAQ:



So, she could not prepare a 5th-level daily spell in a higher level daily slot.

Check the context of that response. That response was someone trying to put a 5th level in a 1st level spot. It could simply have been assumed by CS that 5th level was the highest the person had access to in the context presented. Thus, unable to prepare a 5th in a higher slot because there were no higher slots.

 

[KarinsDad]

Check the context of that response. That response was someone trying to put a 5th level in a 1st level spot. It could simply have been assumed by CS that 5th level was the highest the person had access to in the context presented. Thus, unable to prepare a 5th in a higher slot because there were no higher slots.

Check the context of that response:

At the end of each long rest, a wizard prepares one 1st-level Daily spell chosen from the list of 1st level daily spells in her spellbook. If she were at least 2nd level, she would also prepare one 2nd-level utility spell chosen from the list of 2nd-level utility spells in her spellbook. At 5th level she would also prepare one 5th-level daily spell from her list of 5th-level daily spells in her spellbook.

Crystal clear.

This last sentence quoted here does not indicate "from her list of 1st level daily spells or from her list of 5th-level daily spells in her spellbook".

 

[Tale]

Check the context of that response:



Crystal clear.

This last sentence quoted here does not indicate "from her list of 1st level daily spells or from her list of 5th-level daily spells in her spellbook".

Context also includes the question. The respondent CS could have simply avoided mentioning that because it was not the question he was asked.

The fact is, the same thing occurs to power selection at level-up for all classes. They are to pick a power from the appropriate level. However, we are explicitly allowed to select one of a lower level in the rules. But that doesn't mean it's repeatedly mentioned everytime power selection is. Nor does there appear to be anything stating that Wizards do not have similar benefit to this rule.


I'm not saying that what you are saying is incorrect with regards to Wizard spell selection/alotment. I am saying that the Customer Service response being cited is being cited out of context. The question provides significant context for the response and should be viewed primarilly in the context of that question. You are extending it somewhat unreasonably beyond.

 

[KarinsDad]

Context also includes the question. The respondent CS could have simply avoided mentioning that because it was not the question he was asked.

You're stretching. Everything we have indicates one interpretation over the other.

If WotC wanted first level powers to be prepared in fifth level slots, there would be an indication somewhere in the rules or the FAQ to that effect.

Instead, everything we have gotten so far from Customer Service and the FAQ (and even the DMG chart) support the prep spells acquired at a given level in the slot for that level interpretation.

 

[Tale]

You're stretching. Everything we have indicates one interpretation over the other.

If WotC wanted first level powers to be prepared in fifth level slots, there would be an indication somewhere in the rules or the FAQ to that effect.

Instead, everything we have gotten so far from Customer Service and the FAQ (and even the DMG chart) support the prep spells acquired at a given level in the slot for that level interpretation.

You're stretching. Everyone else has that ability. If Wizards were denied it, that would be the specific exception in need of mention. Not the other way around.

The only Customer Service responses you have is the one you keep quoting. The one lacking proper context.

 

[KarinsDad]

You're stretching. Everyone else has that ability. If Wizards were denied it, that would be the specific exception in need of mention. Not the other way around.

The only Customer Service responses you have is the one you keep quoting. The one lacking proper context.

Actually, I am quoting the FAQ, not Customer Service. Customer Service was quoted in other threads here and on the WotC forums. Feel free to look it up.


And what is this "Everyone else has that ability" stuff that you keep mentioning?

Nobody has the ability to dynamically (i.e. it can be changed from one day to the next) use a lower level power in a higher level slot (the ability you are giving to the Wizard). They can permanently change it with retraining or level replacement, but then so again can the Wizard.

He can use level replacement to replace his TWO first level Daily powers with a first and a fifth level power, but then he is stuck with those two powers for that slot.


Specific overrides General. There is no General rule that any class can put a lower level power into a higher level slot without retraining or replacing at a given level, hence, a Wizard cannot do that either.

There is no specific rule that allows a Wizard to do this.

There is no specific rule that allows a Wizard to put any of his daily spells into his highest level daily slot.

And, the FAQ (even on a slightly different question) doesn't add these abilities either.

So far, the burden of proof for allowing it is on your side of the discussion. There are no rules that allow it.

The rules give PCs of certain levels powers of given levels. The Wizard rules do not change this, it just gives him 2 powers he can use instead of just one for the power for a given level that he gets to use.


Replacement power selection does allow someone to put a higher level power into a lower level slot, but nowhere does it state that the Wizard can put powers from any other slots into a different slot.

You are adding that house rule.