D&D 3E/3.5 Wizard limitations in 3e? Read first post before answering please.

[Jack Simth]

a) The spellcraft DC is basically nothing.
A 1st level Wizard with a lowly 15 Int and max ranks in Spellcraft has a +6 modifier. Taking 10, the wizard can copy a 1st level spell
A 3rd level Wizard with a lowly 15 Int and max ranks in Spellcraft has a +8 modifier. Taking 10, the wizard can copy a 3rd level spell (while only being able to cast 2nd level spells).
A 5th level Wizard with a lowly starting Int of 15 (Int 16 before items (which the Wizard will probably have at this point) due to the 4th level boost) and max ranks in Spellcraft has a +11 modifier. taking 10, the wizard can copy a 6th level spell (while only being able to cast 3rd level spells).

b) The costs involved quickly become trivial. A 7th level Wizard can make a Blessed Book fairly easily, and many will buy one - 12.5 gp/page, now, on the scribing costs (or 6.25 gp, 0.5 xp per page, if it's crafted). Additionally, WBL seems to work out to around a 3rd or 4th order polynomial, while copying costs are linear - meaning the higher level the wizard gets, the less meaningful the costs become.

c) Don't you ever have Wizard opponents? Spellbooks are loot. Oh yes, and if you looted a spellbook, you can prepare spells out of it directly without needing to copy them, at the same DC as for copying them.

d) If you're crafty, you don't copy the spell out of a borrowed spellbook. You spend 15-60 minutes with it, prepare every spell you can out of it, and copy them down later over the next several days.

In a discussion on the quadratic wizard, linear fighter on the D&D next forum, a point occurred to me.

I wonder if people actually are aware of (and if they use) all of the wizard limitations, specifically those on learning and scribing spells.

Please check out these rules before answering:



Copying a spell requires, for each spell level:
level 0 - dc 15 spellcraft, 25 to copy, 100 to write - 125 gold
level 1 - dc 16 spellcraft, 50 to copy, 100 to write - 150 gold
level 2 - dc 17 spellcraft, 100 to copy, 200 to write - 300 gold
up through
level 9 - dc 24 spellcraft, 450 to copy, 900 to write - 1350 gold



The thread that inspired the question, if you're curious:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/new-ho...2529-five-suggestions-limit-wizard-power.html

 

[Dandu]

No shapechange, time stop, or wish is kind of limiting for druids >17th level

Druids get Shapechange.

Anyway:
Level 6, 25 point buy, standard WBL, core-only.
Special Rules:
1) No candles of invocation
2) No dust of sneezing and choking
3) No ladders->poles
Parameters:
1) Raw power- how powerful of a foe (we can agree upon appropriate enemies) can it defeat single-handed without preparation? We can use more than 1 enemy if you want.
2) Endurance- how much of the character's resources are expended upon a CR- appropriate (again we can agree on appropriate) encounter? i.e. how long can the character "keep going"
3) Versatility- how many different types of challenges can the character overcome- examples might be infiltrating and spying on someone, breaking into a vault to steal an artifact, navigating a maze or trap-infested dungeon, etc.
4) Usefulness to the Party- how powerful is the character outside of a vacuum? What sort of assistance can the character lend to a party of characters?

This is possibly the most favorable situation for the druid.

 

[Dandu]

Suggestions on improving this welcome. I just dashed it off quickly before my 7th Sea campaign.

 

[Jack Simth]

Suggestions on improving this welcome. I just dashed it off quickly before my 7th Sea campaign.

You have very little in terms of item 4, helping other party members.

 

[Dandu]

Item 4?

 

[Jack Simth]

Item 4?

Parameter 4 of lolstrider7's challenge: "What sort of assistance can the character lend to a party of characters?"

You can't sneak the party into somewhere, you can't Haste them, and so on. For that matter, a simple chasam is going to give you difficulties (no flight that I can see).

 

[Dandu]

I'll spend some of my remaining gold on that, then.

 

[lolstrider7]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shapechange.htm
This is possibly the most favorable situation for the druid.

Absolutely, which was the point I was making- that core-only, Druids tend to trump wizards at levels < 13th-ish.

My bad on the Shapechange, btw.

As for your character:
Parameters:
1) Um... you have very little damage or killing capabilities. Your best bet is to Alter Self into a Troglodyte, haste yourself, and start hacking away with True Strike while they are blinded/nauseated.
2) You could last quite a while... you are a specialist wizard. You have a top-notch array of BFC and defensive spells.
3) You have Alter Self. 'Nuff said. In all seriousness though, with Alter Self, Charm Person, Shrink Object/Dispel Magic, and Prestidigitation, you should be pretty good in this department.
4) [MENTION=4078]Jack[/MENTION] Smith, this is actually his best attribute. Haste, Phantom Steed, Enlarge Person, Protection from Evil.. and the standard BFC spells to divide and conquer enemies. He's a top-notch party-oriented character.

TL;DR
A very solid, GOD-type wizard, built around playing with a party. Biggest flaws are a lack of damage-dealing spells, even Summon Monster X and the like. I'm kind of curious why you didn't ban Evocation and didn't take a single Evocation Spell. I think that Ray of Enfeeblement, Summon Monster I, or even Magic Missile/Burning Hands would help a lot more than Mount.

I'll cough up a druid or cleric sometime tomorrow... It's 2 AM right now and I'm in no condition to build characters.

 

[Dandu]

1) Um... you have very little damage or killing capabilities. Your best bet is to Alter Self into a Troglodyte, haste yourself, and start hacking away with True Strike while they are blinded/nauseated.

I plan to drop very heavy shrunken objects on people. Or Charm someone and get them to do the killing.

TL;DR
A very solid, GOD-type wizard, built around playing with a party. Biggest flaws are a lack of damage-dealing spells, even Summon Monster X and the like. I'm kind of curious why you didn't ban Evocation and didn't take a single Evocation Spell. I think that Ray of Enfeeblement, Summon Monster I, or even Magic Missile/Burning Hands would help a lot more than Mount.

I decided to leave the possibility of Evocation spells open. You could put in Magic Missile (and I have done so now), but I didn't really think it would be more useful compared to, say, another casting of Grease. If I wanted to kill someone by myself, I'd probably load up on Deep Slumber and CDG someone while they sleep. Or put a shrunken boulder on them and then unshrink the boulder.

More weight indeed.

The thing about druids is that they do have direct damage capabilities along with spells for damage, control, and utility, but I feel that their spell list is weaker compared to that of a wizard.

 

[Jack Simth]

4) [MENTION=4078]Jack[/MENTION] Smith, this is actually his best attribute. Haste, Phantom Steed, Enlarge Person, Protection from Evil.. and the standard BFC spells to divide and conquer enemies. He's a top-notch party-oriented character.

Note that you're checking four hours after I pointed out a lack of certain things. Haste, for instance, is quite new to the list.