Wizard Spells 10-16 Two Page Spread

[korjik]

It's been suggested in some of the designers' comments (all the way back to last year's GenCon, IIRC) that spells that allow you to bypass "natural" challenges--such as being able to fly over pits, for instance--have largely and deliberately been pushed back to paragon tier, at least.

Which is pretty dumb in my opinion. I have found that having the slightest clue about the capabilities of my players, having the slightest clue about what they like and dont like, is usually a better solution to limiting their abilities just to make my life easier.

Heck, I dont generally even use 'natural' challenges cause generally all they do is eat up playing time without advancing the plot, and finding playing time is the most difficult thing to do in my now 17th level 3.5 campaign.

 

[Ravingdork]

I don't like that you can never fly for more than 5 minutes. Hopefully, they will have a more powerful one with a longer duration (like sustain minor with an indefinite duration for example).

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Wow. Mirror Image, Fly and Invisibility got grand-slammed by the nerf bat.

But Resistance is now colossally powerful against the right enemy. All the Pit Fiend does is fire damage! I can see why it's a daily.

 

[Crosswind]

Damage scales up at half your level, but not as a bonus to your damage, you simply gain +1 to all your attribute modifiers every even level. This means your Str, Con, Dex, Int, Wis, and Cha modifiers all increase as you level.

What the hey? Can anybody confirm if this is actually true, or just somebody guessing?

-Cross

 

[DreamChaser]

Assuming the spell level corresponds to the level it can be taken, that's pushed a lot of power pretty far back in the spell progression. Fly at level 16? The equivalent is 5th level in 3.5 today.

Either the wizard's been severely nerfed, or they really have spread out the power growth of all of the classes (not that fly isn't pretty powerful for a 3rd level spell today, even with the reduction in duration for 3.5).

Keep in mind that with 1/3rd again more levels, 5th is equivalent to 7th / 8th. Still, many of these have been very much delayed.

I think it has more to do with the philosophy of evening out the plateau levels. One can be certain that no character will *need* to be able to fly in order for a combat to succeed so flying with be a potentially powerful tactical option that Paragon wizards can take.

DC

 

[FourthBear]

Mirror Image surprised me a bit, since I figured that there wouldn't be any combat useful buffing spells with durations longer than five minutes or so. It is only one hour and has a fairly straightforward effect, but I hope that there aren't too many of these. I am so hoping to never, ever see a "Before Combat" list that is comprised of a dozen spells, three or four potions and a second stat block that explains what the opponent looks like once their buff pants are on.

 

[Hypersmurf]

(Crossposted from the News thread)

As I understand it, this means that Mirror Image is no longer any sort of defense against most targeted spells and many powers, right?

The Power Bonus to AC is effectively the same as a 3E Armor Bonus - that is, an Armor Bonus has no effect on touch attacks. So while the 3E Mirror Image can protect you from Magic Missile, Scorching Ray, or Charm Person, because they might target an image, 3E Mage Armor can't, because Magic Missile always hits, Scorching Ray ignores Armor Bonus, and Charm Person is a Will Save.

In 4E, Mirror Image increases your AC, so Magic Missile ignores it (since it opposes Reflex), and Charm Person ignores it (since it opposes Will)... but oddly, if the Magic Missile or Charm Person fails, it will still diminish your Mirror Image bonus (since they are attacks that missed).

Also, in 3E a Fireball would ignore the Mirror Image, but not diminish the protection; in 4E, a Fireball will likely ignore the Mirror Image (opposing Reflex instead of AC), but if the attack misses you, as well as taking half damage, you'll lose some of your Mirror Image.

I guess one balancing factor is that you'll be able to replenish the bonus back up to +6 any time you have a minor action available.

I notice that the Flying, Invisible, Blasting Wizard will be trickier to pull off - since both the Fly and Invisibility require a Sustain Minor, that leaves you with only a standard action, and if you blast you'll become visible...

Of the eight spells listed with an attack roll, seven use Intelligence - why does Thunderlance use Wisdom?

Always keep some kobold minions on hand for breaking through Walls of Ice. If you do it yourself, you take 2d6 damage for attacking, plus more for being close to the Wall. If your minion does it, he's effectively immune, since the damage he takes doesn't result from an attack roll (similar to how they're apparently immune to a Fighter's Cleave).

-Hyp.

 

[ZappoHisbane]

Wow. I think what shocks me the most is how FEW spells there really seem to be. I realize that there will be rituals added on to this (presumably gained at levels 11, 12 and/or 14), but the fact that it only takes 2 pages to show (most of?) the spells available from levels 10-16?

In 3.5, going from 11th to 16th level would expose you to spell levels 6-8. 6th level ALONE had 42 new spells to choose from (as per the SRD). Many of these are certainly rituals (Planar Binding, Legend Lore, etc), and many will have been left out of 4e entirely (as per previous statements about enchantment/illusion, save or die, etc). Nevertheless, that's still a crapload of choice that seems to have been removed here.

As the OP noted, there may be more 10th level spells on previous pages that we don't see, likewise for 16th level spells on following pages. What we can see however is that there are only 4 13th level spells to choose from. That just seems... weak.

This is the first info seen about 4e that has actually dampened my enthusiasm somewhat. Hmmph.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I notice that the Flying, Invisible, Blasting Wizard will be trickier to pull off - since both the Fly and Invisibility require a Sustain Minor, that leaves you with only a standard action, and if you blast you'll become visible...

If this is an indication of the general design principle for Buff spells, the self-buffer isn't going to be a hugely viable concept - you can't keep more than three buffs with a Sustain Minor going, you can't keep more than two going while doing anything else, and you can't keep more than one going while being at all useful on a mobile battlefield...

-Hyp.

 

[ZappoHisbane]

Keep in mind that with 1/3rd again more levels, 5th is equivalent to 7th / 8th. Still, many of these have been very much delayed.

Not really. Previously, 1-20 were regular play and 21+ was epic and optional. In 4e, 1-10 is Heroic, 11-20 Paragon, 21-30 Epic. Nothing has really changed, except that a) Epic is core and b) there's an upper limit to your levels.