Wizard Spells 10-16 Two Page Spread

[Victim]

Hopefully nobody ever has a 30-foot rope and a grappling hook, then... ;D

Fey Step at most makes a little easier to get by obstacles that any right-thinking PCs can manage to circumvent anyway, and it won't help anyone except the eladrin.

Having one person teleport and then set the rope is often going to be much easier than using a grappling hook to get the rope in place. My swordsage does that all the time.

 

[Incenjucar]

This also gives you great cinematic moments like having the eladrin leap over a 50' gulf, teleporting the second half to just barely get to the other side.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Re: Fey Step. Definitely could be restrictions we're not aware of, so I'm not in a peeve about it yet . Many possible ways to house rule restrictions that should not cause too many downstream probs, I'm with you there, again not in a fit about it. But honestly it does seem inconsistent with the idea behind nerfing Fly and Teleport to me. 5 squares (25') is a nice long distance and for some things the absolute distance isn't the point. It's stuff like being to bypass a solid wall or a cloud of deadly gas. I'm thinking of stuff that you couldn't just bypass with a grappling hook or a good jump check, stuff where the benefit is that you do not need to deal with anything in the intervening space. Just an opinion based on what we know so far. I'll be curious to see the whole picture.

 

[Incenjucar]

Fey Step is one-shot and does not negate gravity, and doesn't let you completely bypass an entire location.

That is an obscenely important distinction.

 

[small pumpkin man]

Do you think attacking an inanimate object triggers the divine challenge damage? I don't think the sphere counts as a paladin's ally...I certainly wouldn't assign damage to a player trying to break free.

From the Paladin sheet.
"If the target [of this ability] makes an attack that does not include you as a target..."

Looks like it works to me, although it has been changed since.

 

[Falling Icicle]

What's the problem? You don't take damage from not attacking the paladin. You take damage if you make an attack that doesn't include the paladin.

Not attacking is a fine option!

No, sitting in a magic bubble while your allies die is not a fine option. You can sit there without taking damage, sure, but if you try and break out of the bubble you will suffer the holy damage from attacking it and not the paladin. In situations like this where the target is simply unable to attack the paladin, he should be exempt from the effects of the challenge, IMO.

 

[FourthBear]

No, sitting in a magic bubble while your allies die is not a fine option. You can sit there without taking damage, sure, but if you try and break out of the bubble you will suffer the holy damage from attacking it and not the paladin. In situations like this where the target is simply unable to attack the paladin, he should be exempt from the effects of the challenge, IMO.

I agree. I hope the core rules are written in a way that make it clear that DMs are encouraged to use common sense to rule against this kind of abuse. While rules should be written to cover as many situations as reasonably possible, there's no substitute for DM judgment when cases where the spirit of the rules is being violated. Otherwise, we must surrender ourselves to all powers being written in increasingly legalistic jargon with small print to avoid silly things like this.

 

[Dausuul]

It's stuff like being to bypass a solid wall or a cloud of deadly gas. I'm thinking of stuff that you couldn't just bypass with a grappling hook or a good jump check, stuff where the benefit is that you do not need to deal with anything in the intervening space. Just an opinion based on what we know so far. I'll be curious to see the whole picture.

This.

Teleporting 25 feet across chasms, out of grapples, and so forth is fine. Teleporting through walls is a bit much. If the rules don't already say so, I will probably house-rule this to require line of sight.

 

[Jhaelen]

It doesn't take that long for characters to describe what they do in their downtime between adventures but it gives them a lot more depth. It not like an in-depth narrative is required. Two or three sentences usually do the trick.

Well, if that's all you want such abilities for, then I'd just handwave it. You perform your thingamajick ritual and off you go flying or diving wherever you want.

We still don't know what you'll be able to do with rituals according to the 4E rules. I'm still wondering if they're just plot devices or if it's precisely defined what you can or cannot do.

 

[Midknightsun]

Fly getting nerfed doesn't bother me in the least, and I've played enough psions/wizards/warlocks in 3.5 to know its a HUGE tactical advantage on many levels. As a DM its also a PITA to constantly HAVE to put in flyers or archer types to deal with the floating spellcaster (Who then goes invisible, puts up protection from arrows, goes up to his furthest effective range, and proceeds with the pain bringing). Yeah, its fun for a while as a player, but its a little too effective for a 3rd level spell. Now the Eladrin ability, if its line of sight and effect, won't tweak me nearly as much. Sure, its useful, but hardly a tactical "I win" in and of its own from what I've seen so far. If its not line of sight . . . then yeah, I have some problems. Not as much as with a full out teleport or dimension door, but still. I am hopeful, though, that this is not the case.