Wizard vs. Monk...Winner?

[Zimbel]

A monk however is going for saves(cloak of resistance +5)

All high-level PCs should be looking for a way to consistantly get a +5 resistance bonus to saves, minimum. Cloak of Resistance is way to cheap to pass up, regardless of class (unless you have a way to get high resistance in some other way). On the other hand, it's unlikely that the Wizard's saves will matter (see earlier comments for why).

Getting to the wizard is not an actual issue-a monk can close distance without issue, OR he could just sneak up on the wizard. There is no spell that reveals a hidden character. This gives him a surprise round. And most likely the wizard will start his round flat on his back. Which means among other things he will spend the rest of the fight trying to get up.

Speaking for my caster (who I retired at the end of LV 20), she'd just summon creatures with blindsight. She spoke the language of everything she summoned, so communication was a non-issue. Problem solved.

I'm also not certain why you think Trip has any relevance to the matter - perhaps you're used to low level Wizards, for which Trip may be an issue?

And saying he does have contigency for 50% hp(normal contingency) all that does is get him away from the fight, he goes away, buffs, comes back flying etc.. The monk can simply just hide and wait for a new opportunity to gank the wizard.

Simply put any character with a high hide skill can kill anyone without spot as a class skill.

If you read the prior posts, you'll find that you haven't scratched the contingency issue.

This starts at 1st lvl when a ranger, rogue, monk starts using hit and run tactics to win against overwhelming opposition. The way it works is legit, but extremely one sided, unless you have someone who can spot the enemy the enemy will eventually win.

Erm... I'll grant that this can work against a stupid opponent, or one that's particuarly weak. Frankly, using a fast mount and Ride-by Attack is better against slow opponents than these options. On the other hand, given the initial terms, this is largely irrelevant.

I'm also not certain why you think the Monk is likely able to even see the Wizard, particuarly since you're granting the inverse (that the Wizard can't see the Monk).

Also only a small handful of wizard spells do not allow a save, and most are touch, or ranged touch attacks, both of which are pretty much NOT going to hit a monk because his ac and touch ac are pretty much the same(minus bracers of armor and amulet of natural armor if he does have them, most give up the natural armor for the wisdom boost).

There are dozens of comments on how to breach AC above, if the Wiz wants to. There's no real reason why the Wiz has to, though. At LV 20, there are plenty of options for the Wizard. The Monk has to shut the Wizard down on attack action 1 (very unlikely), and keep them shut down until dead (marginally more likely).

...the monk will still most likely win IF he has boots of flying in his backpack and takes the round to change footwear. OR he has a potion of flying(best bet).

Neither item grants enough mobility to matter. If the Monk has a round to change footwear, the Wizard is very stupid. On the other hand, given the terms of combat, the Monk should start off with the boots on.

A high lvl character is dangerous but only against certain enemies, a monk is really designed to take out soft targets and make hard targets work for the kill. A wizard is in general designed to handle utility spells among the party and take out enemy hard targets but starts to lose steam when he comes accross anything with evasion, improved evasion and good saves.

The two classes that really work well against a wizard are rogues, and monks. A rogue can hit and run a wizard to death in no time, and a monk can just literally take a wizard out without much issue in one round or 2.

I'm wondering why you think a LV 20 Wizard is a soft target. A LV 1 Wizard is a soft target; a LV 20 Wizard can compensate for virtually every disadvantage fairly cheaply (e.g. spells that they'll replenish tomorrow). As for saves, SR, and evasion, please look at the prior posts.

The rogue's chances in the described combat are largely the same as the Monk although their base Move is lower. Fundamentally both need to get the first attack. Both need to hit with that attack, and using that attack either kill the Wizard or shut them down, so they can't do anything until death. A moderately well-played Wizard is very unlikely to give them the opportunity to take that attack. A well-played Wizard is unlikely to be shut down even if they get that attack.

 

[Zimbel]

<removed; duplicative of above post>

 

[green slime]

Mooooo! Moo-moo-moo!

*gallops over to other side of field*

Mooo! Moo! Moo! Moo!

*comes thundering back over to this side*

Moo!

*trots back over to the other side*

Moo? Moo-moo-moo mooooooo moo!

*starts to walk back across the field, gets abducted by aliens*

 

[Lamoni]

Edit - Deleted post because I didn't want to inspire any more posts. The topic has been adequately discussed.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Edit - Deleted post because I didn't want to inspire any more posts. The topic has been adequately discussed.

Meh. Nobody ever got down to it. I wish I still had a link to the fantastic Fighter vs Psiwar thread from a few months back. Elder-Basilisk and another poster (I want to say Scion, but I may be misremembering,) each posted a build and its advantages/disadvantages. It was a very informative thread, allowing each person to look at a fully-statted 20th-level character, the rationale behind the creators, and judge for themselves whom they believe was stronger.

In the Fighter/Psiwar thread it was more about "being the best fighter" than winning an arena match, but the point remains. With any of these comparison discussions, at the end of the day you need to stat up examples and analyze them.