Wizard vs. Sorcerer for Newbie

[Olgar Shiverstone]

You might point out to your wizard player, too, that not all spells need to be prepared at the beginning of the day. The wizard can leave slots empty and prepare them later in the day by taking 15 minutes to prepare.

This is great for leaving a spell slot or two opern per spell level for utility spells you don't know you're going to need. With one 2d level slot open, for example, you can wait until you need to get through a door to prepare knock, or wait until the party decides to sneak up on something to prepare invisibility, etc.

The player doesn't have to be omniscient that way -- another player can ask, in character, "Do you have any way to open that door?" and the wizard reponds: "Give me 15 minutes to look over my spellbook, and perhaps I can help."

 

[Spatula]

One wizard ability that I haven't seen anyone mention is that you can choose to leave some spell slots open, and fill in those slots later on in the day. It takes 15 minutes as I recall, so it's not useful for something that you need NOW, but it could be a useful tool for a new player who doesn't know what to memorize.

 

[jemkym]

Sorcerer v Wizard

I think I'll agree with StalkingBlue on this one... I've always viewed that when you play the game, the way you play your character is the primary objective -- achieving goals within the game world are just a bonus. Sometimes, getting caught by the castle guards can be just as much fun -- if not more fun -- than robbing the treasury.

I assume you've started at 1st level... Of course, it's going to take a while for a wizard to learn her powers. Let her learn at her own pace and concentrate on her character rather than worrying about whether she's contributing to the group. And if she's still a Rincewind at 9th or 10th level, have fun with it. Everyone's got their own learning curve!

 

[Zander]

I noticed I had forgotten to include the list you spoke of.

Pro's for wizard:

-any spell you run across, any time, you can learn.
-you gain extra feats every 5th level.
-all simple weapons (minor good point).

Con's for wizard:
-lack of spontaneous versatility.
-lack of weapon variety.
-making magic items, a major perk of the class, is very costly in XP and materials.


Pro's for sorcerer:
-extreme spontaneous versatility.
-more versatility with personal weapons.
-more benefit out of metamagic feats than wizard, when combined with above versatility.

con's for sorcerer.
-extreme LACK of spell selection.
-lack of Magic user's 4 extra feats over 20 levels.

A useful list, but you have forgotten a very important and highly underrated pro for wizards. That is, the ability to write scrolls.

A wizard can produce scrolls of his rarely used spells and reserve his memorised spell slots for the ones he uses all the time. The XP and material cost of producing scrolls is relatively small. So wizards can rival or even surpass sorcerers in terms of versatility.

 

[bret]

Part of the problem is by 6th level, the player has too many spells in their spellbook for a newbie to pick up.

At a guess, the minimum values would be:
1st: 8 (6 to start, +2 as 2nd)
2nd 4
3rd 4


The wizard has probably picked up more from other sources. Probably only a couple of 3rd level, half-dozen at most of 2nd level, and maybe eight or so first level spells. Depends on the GM.

I agree that making a special spellbook for the player would help a lot. So would having a familiar that helps instruct.

Here is some advice I would give the player:
* Make a few scrolls of the seldom used utilities spells. The scrolls don't cost that much XP, and allow them to have the spell available when really needed. Don't do this with the spells you always want, memorize those instead.
* You can leave spell slots open, and then fill them with a spell after 15 minutes preparation. Some people like this, others don't.
* Make a 'standard' spell list or two. Spells that would have almost always been useful. Each day, just modify off that standard spell list. Every mage I've ever played did this, usually only changing 2-3 spells a day.


As a GM, I have another suggestion. Rather than completely change the character, revise it slightly so she qualifies for the Mage of the Arcane Order PrC from Tome & Blood. This would allow her to spontaneously call for spells from the spellpool, and give you an opportunity to have other NPC mages advise her. You will probably have to change her feats to do this. Most mages don't take Cooperative Spell.


I think that the main differences between sorcerer and wizard are:

The wizard needs short term planning, while the sorcerer needs long term planning. If the wizard chooses to learn a worthless spell, they are only out some time and money. The sorcerer is stuck with that spell forever.

The sorcerer is more flexible in an in-promptu situation, while the wizard is more flexible in a planned encounter. The sorcerer keeps using the same spells for everything, while the wizard can pick the exact spell he or she needs for a specific situation.

The wizard is better at creating magical items.

The sorcerer will get more use out of metamagic feats, since he can add them at the time they cast them.

The wizard can make mistakes. If the wizard picks the wrong spell, they can come back the next day with the right spell. Once a spell is chosen by the Sorcerer, they have that spell for life.

The sorcerer is slightly better at weapons (can wear Spiked Guantlets), but much worse off for skills. The wizard will always have a high Int to give them bonus skill points, this is not true of the Sorcerer.

The Wizard can create scrolls, allowing him to spend money in order to have that specialized spell available when needed.




I think that in the short term, the wizard is more frustrating. You are always thinking that 'if only I had prepared that spell'.

In the long term, the sorcerer is more frustrating. You are always thinking 'if only I had learned that spell, it would have gotten me out of this situation.'


Also try talking to the wife. If she would like it, allow the husband to 'run' a mentor NPC who talks to her about what she has done. Make suggestions of how she might better prepare for something in the future, and help her create 'standard' spell lists.

 

[Pbartender]

A useful list, but you have forgotten a very important and highly underrated pro for wizards. That is, the ability to write scrolls.

A wizard can produce scrolls of his rarely used spells and reserve his memorised spell slots for the ones he uses all the time. The XP and material cost of producing scrolls is relatively small. So wizards can rival or even surpass sorcerers in terms of versatility.

This is exactly what I was thinking. There is a reason Wizard's get Scribe Scroll for free at first level. there is no reason any Wizard shouldn't have a sheaf of 1st and 2nd level scrolls.

And get her to buy a wand or two. Wands of 0th and 1st level "utility" spells are invaluable.

Also, either make or buy some Spell Cards... little index cards with the spell stats and descriptions on them. Then, every game day, she can just pull out the cards of the spells she prepares, and have the information on-hand.

 

[Nifft]

There's no reason why she should have to learn all spell schools at once. You ought to give her a "primer" on the sort of spells in each school, and let her pick one or two to "specialize" in. She won't really be a specialist, but she will have a domain of spells which she knows and her party can count on her having at the ready.

This both makes her job easier, and lets her give more personality to her character.

-- Nifft

 

[Kichwas]

Most people I know are the reverse of above. A sorcerer has only 1 casting more then a wizard, and got less spells then a wizard so they are fairly weak. But a sorcerer is more a magical type of character that gives a better feal about magic.

Does a Wizard really get many more spells in the average campaign?

A sorcerer has 34 spells plus 9 level zero spells at level 20. A wizard at that point has 43 spells plus all zero level spells, plus whatever they've studied.

Things is, do many DMs even give players the time off to do research to get new spells? In my experience it's been no. From what I've seen PCs get stuck in an endless series of challenges from level 1 to level 20 that can rush them up the entire level chain in only a year or two of game time.

In such a dynamic, the sorcerer has the advantage, as she has more spells per day, and complete freedom over which to use.

A sorcer NEVER wastes a spell slot. A wizard on average will waste half of them. In effect, you could cut a wizards spells per day in half and get what actually gets used in the average game. Until they get to a point where they can gather good intell, many slots will be watsed. A smart player will leave most of her slots open, chosing to spend 15 minutes to fill them later inthe day with utility spells. A smart player NEVER memorizes anything but the 'I need it now!' spells like combat and feather fall... leaving the rest for those 15 minute slots.

But most of us aren't that smart all the time.

And even when you are, you still end up getting less value out of your slots.

The wizard got faster the higher level spells, and the fact that he can use instant instead of a full round action for spells makes it stronger.

There's a feat to get around this once/day in FFG's Spells and Spellcraft.

There may be other feats elsewhere that work more often. I'm sure I read one, but can't recall where.


In a new game that started last night, I'm plaing a Witch as published by Green Ronin with the Pagan package from Mongoose's Q. Witch (roughly gives me tracking and animal domain, but locks me to Druid Weapons and no law, chaos, good, or evil spells).

This class works much like the sorcerer, but has a only a small specialized list of spells from which to choose. This kind of angle might be good for a new player. My choices for spells were very narrow so it was a quick process of choosing what to take.

In the end, she has 'charm person' and 'sleep' for her first level spells, and 'dancing lights, prestidigitation, detect magic, and detect poison' for zero level. I got to start at level 2 as two other players had drow PCs (I'm a wild elf, and the fourth player is a Moon Elf. We get to have fun moments like when my PC is unable to tell the difference between an Orc and a Human cause 'they all look alike anyway: big and hairy').

That's one other option if you have a descent sized d20 library: go with a variant class that has a limited spell list so that the playerhas easier choices. There's even a version of the Witch class in the DMG. It's the core PC class everyone forgets because it's in the wrong book.