Wizards and healing spells

[irdeggman]

Well, the one that casts the spell does not need to be the same one that makes the item, so a Cleric and a Wizard can already make such items together (given the Cleric doesn't have the feat as well).

Bye
Thanee

Correct but a wizard can't use the wand of CLW made in that way since the spell is not on his list although a bard could.

And if it a scroll it is either arcane or divine depending on who the creator is. If it arcane then the wizard still can't use it because it is an arcane spell that is not on his spell list and if it divine he likewise can't sue it.

 

[Shin Okada]

Well, basically, though healing spells are spells, healing is not meant to be the the power Sorcerer or Wizard have.

What you are trying to do is giving powers which does not meant to belong to the role of a certain class. If you do that, there is no reason to give healing abilities to, say, Barbarian, either.

Yet, a wizard can have various ways to cast healing spells without making up original spells.

Arcane Disciple　(Healing) enables him to learn and cast spells from Healing Domain, though limited numbers per day.

Limited Wish can copy any spells of 5th or lower level unless that is of his prohibited school. Thus, a wizard can copy spells such as Cure Critical Wounds, Panacea, Raise Dead, Restoration, Revivify and such.

And of course, there are infinite possibility for multi-classing.

DnD 3.Xe is not a pure single class (single role for a character) game. Yet, if a character want to have abilities of other classes, some drawbacks are meant to be applied, such as lower-casting power due to multi-classing or using up feats for it.

 

[El Mahdi]

I would suggest the following:

Short of multi-classing to Cleric, a Wizards research would lead him to the conclusion that healing magic is possible, but if not divinely given, could have drawbacks. Such as:

• Wizard healing magic could be short termed (any HP gained disappear after a certain length of time).
• Wizard healing magic could tire the recipient (change condition to exhausted, etc) - possibly after an encounter concludes, or possibly immediately upon casting. (This is kind of how it's done in the Wheel of Time - maybe check out the books or get a hold of a copy of the D20 Wheel of Time RPG.)
• Your Wizard's research results in a spell like the Forgotten Realms spell Simbul's Synostodweomer.
• Wizard healing magic could be a higher level spell than it's Cleric counterpart, and possibly cure less hit points (and be completely useless for other effects - i.e. disease, blindness, etc. - those are strictly within the perview of Clerics).
• Your Wizard must make some kind of pact with a higher power (a God/Goddess of Magic, a Demon/Devil, etc.).
• Healing magic could drain the Wizard, temporarily causing a loss of HP, Con, or just affecting his condition (exhausted, etc.).
• Wizards can only perform Healing Magic as part of a Ritual (kind of like 4E), requiring significant time and expenditure of spell components (eliminating Wizard battlefield cures).
• Or Wizards can eventually do everything a cleric can do, thereby eliminatiing the need for clerics in your game world.

The Wizard does the research, but you decide what he learns and discovers. I don't think your player doing this is a bad thing. It can add a lot of color and fun to your game, and keeps your player invested in your game. Both of which are very good things.

Decide the limits of what you are willing to allow a Wizard/Sorcerer to do, based on the feel of your campaign/world, and the balance of your game. Then determine what your Wizard determines based on the amount of time and money spent researching (adjust DC's accordingly). Of course, not all information needs to be imparted to your Wizard all at once. Research is an ongoing thing that takes time. He can learn a piece here, and a piece there, and eventually put it all together into an useable form. This can even be a premise for adventures (side treks or a full blown story line - your choice).

This is a great opportunity for your game. Go with it and have fun.

 

[Runestar]

Limited Wish can copy any spells of 5th or lower level unless that is of his prohibited school. Thus, a wizard can copy spells such as Cure Critical Wounds, Panacea, Raise Dead, Restoration, Revivify and such.

Note that heal is a 5th lv adept spell, which limited wish can replicate. So there is no excuse to copy something inferior.

 

[Shin Okada]

Note that heal is a 5th lv adept spell, which limited wish can replicate. So there is no excuse to copy something inferior.

Ah, I didn't notice that.

 

[Tilenas]

Thanks everyone for the ample feedback. Even though not everything was strictly on-topic, I noticed a lot of good thoughts.
So here's what I'll do: I'll let the wizard research healing spells (and possibly other spells from other classes' spell lists), but these are going to be of a higher spell level for him, as they are not part of his core competence.
The druid serves as the basis for this: all healing spells except CLW are a level higher than for the cleric. For the wizard, they are going to be even higher. I thought of the following progression:
CLW 2nd level
CMW 4th
CSW 5th
CCW 6th

That means our level 2-wizard can start his research one he hits 3rd level and should have it figured out by 4th level. Seems fair.

 

[irdeggman]

Thanks everyone for the ample feedback. Even though not everything was strictly on-topic, I noticed a lot of good thoughts.
So here's what I'll do: I'll let the wizard research healing spells (and possibly other spells from other classes' spell lists), but these are going to be of a higher spell level for him, as they are not part of his core competence.
The druid serves as the basis for this: all healing spells except CLW are a level higher than for the cleric. For the wizard, they are going to be even higher. I thought of the following progression:
CLW 2nd level
CMW 4th
CSW 5th
CCW 6th

That means our level 2-wizard can start his research one he hits 3rd level and should have it figured out by 4th level. Seems fair.

They should be at least +2 spell levels above the clerical version. Look at when a bard can access the spells - not only spell level but what class level he has to be to access them. The wizard should not be able to cast the spells any quicker than a bard can - they are on his spell list.

 

[Oni]

One of my main problems with it is that once it's on the spell list, you can make wands and scrolls of it to avoid this dilemma entirely.

This is a fair point. Healing though is kind of a burdensome activity, it's been many a time that I've seen around the table that no one wants to get "stuck" playing the healer. I still believe spreading the burden between a few classes has the potential to make the game more fun for everyone.

 

[Shin Okada]

This is a fair point. Healing though is kind of a burdensome activity, it's been many a time that I've seen around the table that no one wants to get "stuck" playing the healer. I still believe spreading the burden between a few classes has the potential to make the game more fun for everyone.

That is kind of right and that is why 4e is made so. All the characters have "self healing" abilities. (Though, personally, I have never met such troubles when plaing fantasy RPGs. Almost always someone want to play "controller of the team tactics" or want to have "the power to survive".)

But, IMHO, in 3.5e, if we introduce healing abilities to classes which currently have non such abilities, we should better give them some kind of "cost". Say, substituting some class features, letting them take some feats for it, letting them multi-class, etc.

Healing magic is, in fact, one of the strongest abilities.

As already mentioned, such measures are already in the official supplements and IMHO it is a bad idea to simply add healing spells to Sorcerer/Wizard spell list.

 

[Cadence]

Bards as arcane healers has been annoying me, and this was the closest threat I could find to to resurrect......

It has come to it at last, our group's wizard is hellbent on researching cure-spells and I as the GM cannot come up with a believable reason why he shouldn't be allowed to.

I mean, in AD&D it was fairly easy as I recall, as the rule went "Arcane spells cannot restore lost HP or cure detrimental effects on health. Period." (If I'm mistaken there, please feel free to correct me).

In any case, in 3rd ed. I can't make that claim, as bards (arcane spellcasters) get the whole menu of cure-spells. As we play by the book at the moment, I can't houserule it out.

Edit: Also note that Bards aren't wizards, any more than paladins are druids. Paladins, druids, clerics, and rangers have very different spell lists.

But none of clerics, druids, paladins, or rangers are supposed to be the masters of all divine magic, just the masters of the parts that fit their idiom (since they're granted from some higher power or somesuch). The books make Wizards out to be the masters of all arcane magic except for some possibly self-selected specialization (a view I'm guessing a few posters in other threads hold very strongly).

Arcane Disciple　(Healing) enables him to learn and cast spells from Healing Domain, though limited numbers per day.

The feat would work if the only concern was letting the wizards do it (which leads to arguments about game balance) and doesn't fix the oddity of bards being able to do arcane things no wizard can.

So, in 3.5/PF, what are the down-sides to making bardic magic just be "bardic" as distinct from "arcane" or "divine"? If that's bad, any other creative solutions besides an appeal to RAW?