Wizards... Are they shafted?

[Henry]

I've settled on spellcasting prodigy, and create wondrous item for my fifth level feat.

...

Does anyone else see a problem with wizards being mildly underpowered, and increasingly more so as you consider item creation feats and/or multi-classing?

I would have picked brew potion and extend spell as my feats, and worked on buffing magics myself, but that's me.

Focus more on smaller items (potions, scrolls, and one-use wondrous stuff) rather than 125,000 go worth of magical goodies. Your players will thank you when the extra scroll of knock or invisibility, or those potions of mage armor or bull's strength kick in and save the party's bacon (that mage armor potion might be apocryphal, but is allowable by some DM's.) You will have plenty of offensive might in battle, and potions and scrolls allow contributions to be felt long outside of your limitations.

A 20 INT sun elf wizard is nothing to sneeze at - but you must know your strengths and weaknesses, same as any class. Wizards IMO are slightly overpowered in 3E (vs. 3.5) if non-core rules are used, due to the high number of DC-enhancing character options; if you are used to those sources, then yes, a 3.5 wizard will feel weaker; my supposition is that the "weakness" is the return to "on par" power levels that you feel in that case.

 

[Cbas10]

With wizards getting Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat (in addition to Metamagic or Item Creation feats at 5th, 10th, etc) a wizard can sacrifice a few XP for a vast array of scrolls or even, with spending a bit more gold and experience, minor single-use items for other party members to use.

I recently had a Wizard character who took Craft Wondrous Item at the earliest possible time (3rd level, I think) and pretty accidentally became a spell-casting powerhouse. Here and there, I crafted a scroll or two. Generally, these were the very specific types of spells that do not see daily use (such as Glitterdust, Detect Undead, Protection from Arrows, etc). Then I blew several hundred gold and a small handful of XP (a couple hundred, I believe) to create my own Heward's Handy Haversack. From that day on, I was consistently rationing out about 10% of my XP for creating scrolls and minor items to ensure that I was virtually NEVER without just exactly the right spell almost literally at my fingertips.

In straight-up "Lets see what we can kill" types of examples, wizards suck. They are supposed to. However, in the grand scheme, where you get to play out your planning and strategies, Wizards are VERY powerful.

 

[Saeviomagy]

In straight-up "Lets see what we can kill" types of examples, wizards suck. They are supposed to. However, in the grand scheme, where you get to play out your planning and strategies, Wizards are VERY powerful.

If you are a sorceror, make sure you have offensive spells at every level. Use them often. You are an artillery piece.

If you are a wizard, have significantly less offensive spells. Leave a slot of every spell level open. Buy lots of scrolls of utility spells and learn them. Get (craft) interesting items like tanglefoot bags, flasks of acid and alchemist's fire, thunderstones and the like. Do not expect to be a damage machine. Expect to help out a bit here and there in combat. Expect to control the battlefield. Expect to be a massive help outside of combat - you are a combat engineer, not an artillery piece.

 

[Si_RW]

i am playing my first wizard after playing fighter classes for 3 years. i have found that if you read every book that has magic in it you can be one hell of a wizard, books such as BoVD allow this. dealing with the creation i don't know why or if i as a dm would even allow a 7th lvl wizard to create magical items at all and i definately wouldn't allow one to create such a high dollar magic item. it is totally out of that pc's range and experience. by the why i don't think you can create anything that would drop you a lvl.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

In looking at the XP costs, it seems like an average of 1000-2000 XP expenditures in creating useful (powerful) wondrous items is not out of the norm. So if I create 5 such items at 1000 xp each, I've just lost one whole level, and will end the game at 6th instead of 7th - i.e. no fifth level spells.

If you are choosing what items to craft wisely, you certainly are not going to be weaker for burning those xp even if that means you trail a level or so.

A lot of players prefer Humans in low level campaigns because that extra feat and skill points give them a lot more room to customize their character. Spell Prodigy is a powerful choice, but not necessarily the most fun. I am afraid your DM is making feat allocation doubly tight. OTOH, a Wizard properly protected by thick meatshields does not really need any more feats to be an effective party member.

 

[Cbas10]

If you are a sorceror, make sure you have offensive spells at every level. Use them often. You are an artillery piece.

If you are a wizard, have significantly less offensive spells. Leave a slot of every spell level open. Buy lots of scrolls of utility spells and learn them. Get (craft) interesting items like tanglefoot bags, flasks of acid and alchemist's fire, thunderstones and the like. Do not expect to be a damage machine. Expect to help out a bit here and there in combat. Expect to control the battlefield. Expect to be a massive help outside of combat - you are a combat engineer, not an artillery piece.

I think that we, through a couple of various threads, have established that we have savagely different styles of gaming. Rather than continue to point out what may or may not be "wrong" with each other's styles, lets keep this on-topic a bit more.

Therefore, related to the topic, you have helped me to prove my point on wizards; they have the resources to be extremely self-sufficient...evidently even in heavily combat-oriented games.

As for the sorcerer bit, that seems to me like a mind-blowingly boring way to play the game, but sorcerers were not even part of the original topic, anyways.

 

[Bauglir]

One thing I'm surprised noone has mentioned yet - if the game's stopping at 7th level you would only be getting access to 4th level spells, not even 5th..

Re: Item creation I use a house rule that allows other people to take part in item creation rituals and contribute to the cost. So if the fighter wants the wizard to make him a spinky new +2 flaming longsword then he can pay the xp himself, rather than the wizard having to do it..

 

[Gnarlo]

Re: Item creation I use a house rule that allows other people to take part in item creation rituals and contribute to the cost. So if the fighter wants the wizard to make him a spinky new +2 flaming longsword then he can pay the xp himself, rather than the wizard having to do it..

Which can also be a very good "in" to using bonded weapons that grow with the character and become more powerful over time.

 

[hong]

If you are a sorceror, make sure you have offensive spells at every level. Use them often. You are an artillery piece.

... until you hit 14th level and get limited wish, that is.

 

[Darklone]

Hmmm would you mind to post at the next "Sorcerers are screwed and much weaker than wizards" thread?

I don't agree that wizards are underpowered. Perhaps in a bangbang dungeoncrawl, but nowhere else.