Wizards: Bard to no longer suck

[Gentlegamer]

You mean like Vainamoinen, Finland's greatest hero of legend...?

Or Orpheus . . ?

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Again, it seems you're getting too caught up in the labels here. Look at what the "leader" role actually entails. It's basically the party's force multiplier: giving bonuses here, free actions there, healing, etc. That's the basic concept, and it doesn't change whether they call it leader, support, or whatever.

And if they called it the buffer/healer, and the defender the tank, and the striker the DPS, everybody would freak.

Brad

 

[frankthedm]

Trying to keep the classes capable of handling more combat situations is a good thing. Right now, characters often have real incentives to withold plot hooks.

Fighter; Looks for hordes of foes to cleave and tries to avoid adventure hooks that might involve will saves
Thief: "forgets" to inform the party about the dungeons said to contain lots of undead
Cleric: Tries to get the party to dungeons said to contain lots of undead
Wizard: Avoids hordes that have more foes than he can kill with his spells and tries to avoid adventure hooks that might involve fort saves.
Bard: Tries to get the party to stay in town.

 

[Lalato]

There are multiple things wrong with the Bard class in 3e. If they fix some of them in 4e, I"ll be sold. I love the Bard concept, but the current implementation is flawed.

1. The Bard has the most dead levels of just about any class. Dead levels = Not Fun.
2. The Bard is supposed to be a generalist. Generalist implies that you can do things, but perhaps not as good as a specialist. The Bard is actually worse than a Generalist. Most Generalists gain some kind of synergy from having access to a little bit of everything. Instead, the Bard just "generally" sucks at everything.
3. The Bard is supposed to be good at one thing... Social Interaction, but he is largely overshadowed by the Rogue. Sure, he can fascinate, but that requires the DM to basically give the Bard the opportunity to showcase that ability. Trust me, it doesn't come up that often.
4. Yes, there are ways to make the Bard better, but they're not in the core rules... you have to go out and cherry pick a feat here and cherry pick a spell there. That shouldn't be required to make a class playable. It should only be useful to provide interesting options.

In conclusion... The Bard needs an overhaul. I'm glad he's getting one. Like I said, I love the concept, but the 3e version just ain't that great.

--sam

 

[Raven Crowking]

Trying to keep the classes capable of handling more combat situations is a good thing. Right now, characters often have real incentives to withold plot hooks.

Fighter; Looks for hordes of foes to cleave and tries to avoid adventure hooks that might involve will saves
Thief: "forgets" to inform the party about the dungeons said to contain lots of undead
Cleric: Tries to get the party to dungeons said to contain lots of undead
Wizard: Avoids hordes that have more foes than he can kill with his spells and tries to avoid adventure hooks that might involve fort saves.
Bard: Tries to get the party to stay in town.

Crom forbid the players should have to compromise........

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I suggest a small name change - cheerleader.

Save the bard.

Save the world.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The best bard I've ever seen played in 3.X was my wife's Bard / Barbarian.

Unless it was my friend's Bard / Fighter.

Catch a trend?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The key is a well balanced set of scores like (28 pt buy) Str 14, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 15 (you could easily switch charisma with str dex or con for more of a combat focus). PBS and Rapid Shot or Power Attack/Cleave and you'll be doing pretty well in combat. When fighting anything immune to critical hits you'll be better than the rogue.

If the key to a class being comparable to other classes is a very specific set of ability scores, feats and opponents, that's a big problem.

It was true with the Truenamer, it's true with the bard.

 

[Greg K]

Bard = Minstrel should not be a class. A great character concept, yes, but not a class. It can be an interseting class to play once you've wrapped your head around it and play a certain way to allow for it, but, like I said before, it's niche. If they can change him into a sort of jack-of-all-trades/storyteller that functions as other classes function, then that's cool. Otherwise, get rid of him and let people take Perform and Knowledge.

I say get rid of it as a jack of all trades. Let people take Knowledge and Perform. Make a song/music a power source. Make Bardic Knowledge an ability anyone can get with prerequisites of Knowledge and Perform

 

[frankthedm]

I suggest a small name change - cheerleader.

Don't we get enough of that from Wotc?

It's Fun, It's Fair!
Go 4E! Go 4E!
It's Fun, It's Fair!
Go 4E! Go 4E!