Wizards: Bard to no longer suck

[Olgar Shiverstone]

If the bard is half so cool as Guitar Hero, we will all be very lucky, indeed.

"Who said 'play Freebird?' There's a rogue working his way through the crowd to backstab you RIGHT NOW!"

For some reason, that reminded me of ...

Standing in the rain, with his head hung low
Couldnt get a ticket, it was a sold out show
Heard the roar of the crowd, he could picture the scene
Put his ear to the wall, then like a distant scream

He heard one guitar, just blew him away
He saw stars in his eyes, and the very next day
Bought a beat up six string in a secondhand store
Didnt know how to play it, but he knew for sure

That one guitar, felt good in his hands
Didnt take long, to understand
Just one guitar, slung way down low
Was one way ticket, only one way to go

So he started rockin
Aint never gonna stop
Gotta keep on rockin
Someday hes gonna make it to the top

And be a tavern hero, got stars in his eyes
Hes a tavern hero
He took one guitar, tavern hero, stars in his eyes
Tavern hero, hell come alive tonight

In a town without a name, in a heavy downpour
Thought he passed his own shadow, by the backstage door
Like a trip through the past, to that day in the rain
And that one guitar made his whole life change

Now he needs to keep rockin
He just cant stop
Gotta keep on rockin
That boy has got to stay on top

And be a tavern hero, got stars in his eyes
Hes a tavern hero, got stars in his eyes
Yeah, tavern hero, got stars in his eyes
With that one guitar hell come alive
Come alive tonight

Yeah, hes gotta keep rockin
He just cant stop
Gotta keep on rockin
That boy has got to stay on top

And be a tavern hero, got stars in his eyes
Hes a tavern hero, got stars in his eyes
Just one guitar, put stars in his eyes
Hes just a tavern hero, aah aah aah
Tavern hero, Tavern hero, hes got stars in his eyes
Stars in his eyes

But I've got a soft spot 'cause my first 3E character was a bard who played rock tunes (Inspire Courage was "Bad to the Bone").

 

[Gundark]

If the bard doesn't suck then it's not D&D.

If I remember well enough the Bard was quite good in 2e.

 

[variant]

Monte Cook's alternative Bard was really good. I had a whiny player in my group complaining about my power when I was seriously dishing it up. The ironic part was that he was playing a Druid.

If I remember well enough the Bard was quite good in 2e.

Yes, Wizard's spell list up to 6th level spells and advanced much quicker than a Wizard ever could. I really liked the 2nd edition Bard.

 

[Imp]

Neither of my last two bard attempts sang. Both had perform : oratory. One used it for inspirational speeches and battlefield control, the other was a priestly type who shouted blessings and promised damnation as well as ruin to their enemies.

Yeah, and I skew the flavor of bards too, but would you rather have to graft these priestly/ captainly elements upon a basically musical class – it is pretty hard to cut out all the musical elements of the class even if you go oratory, I've found – or else, have some mechanism for grafting these leader-type benefits upon the classes they seem to be based on?

(Of course the 3e cleric already is a leader type in this sense.)

Lord knows people should be able to play a music-as-magic type if they want to, it's a very deep archetype, but I wouldn't want a bard to be a required role as party leader. Though I don't like required roles of any sort. I've said this before, but what kind of sense does it really make to say, "off we go to traipse about the depths of a deep dark dungeon; be sure and bring a member of the clergy!"

 

[wayne62682]

The bard only "sucks" if you play it like the stereotypical Elan-type buffoon (as a friend of mine on the WotC boards put it, "'stupid and useless' bard who wastes his actions with things like feinting or summoning badgers to flank or worshipping self-proclaimed puppet gods or inspiring competence on a move silently check with a song"). There are ways (usually involving the dreaded "B" word [i.e. "builds"]) that make the Bard one of the awesomest (is that a word? It is now) PCs around. There was actually a very good thread on the WotC boards that discussed good and bad Bard builds.

That said, however, I'm definitely intrigued as to how the Bard will be done in 4E.

 

[carmachu]

Why not?

Seriously, I'm not being snarky here. Why shouldn't bards be equally effective as other classes both in and out of combat?

*shrug* Not every other class has as much out of character skills as him....Like cleric.

If parties are like the A-team....bards are Faceman. Frontmen for the group. Yeah he can mix it up...but when it comes down to throwdowns....you turn to BA.....

But thats just my view on it....

 

[Nahat Anoj]

There is a reason why bards, minstrels, skalds, etc sing and write about heroic exploits, it's because they are on the sideline observing. It sounds unglorious and boring but that's a roleplaying reality unfortunately not a gaming reality. I stand firm, bards are inherently not for combat besides support, but are invaluable outside it.

I suspect that, in 4e, bards will remain valuable in roleplay situations *and* in combat endeavors. There's no reason to suspect 4e won't cater to both (and, IMO, every reason to suspect that 4e will at least try - it doesn't strike me as particularly hard to do).

 

[rounser]

There is a reason why bards, minstrels, skalds, etc sing and write about heroic exploits, it's because they are on the sideline observing. It sounds unglorious and boring but that's a roleplaying reality unfortunately not a gaming reality. I stand firm, bards are inherently not for combat besides support, but are invaluable outside it.

I think this is a misconception based on assumptions that have been in the game since 2E.

The impression I got of the bard of celtic folklore from reading some stories is this omnipotent superhuman who doesn't quite seem mortal, even from birth. Somewhere along the way it got confused with the minstrel (2E I think, the 1E bard echoes somewhat the overpowered supernatural monstrosity of folklore), and D&D wound up where it is now: lutes in a dungeon.

I'm prepared to be pleasantly surprised if they've rethought the concept from the ground up as not-a-support-character, but the "leader" stuff seems to make that unlikely. Characters that can't exist in a vacuum seem sort of less fun, because when compared to the independent kick-assedness of a fighter or mage, they seem incomplete.

 

[Delta]

If the bard doesn't suck then it's not D&D.

Somewhere there's an ancient Dragon magazine humor piece featuring an orc chieftan crying about how he got beat up by a 1E bard, because they're so radically overpowered. Of course, that was when they were effectively the only prestige class in the game.

 

[Mortellan]

I will further clarify my stance in saying a Bard is definitely not a good choice for 1-4 slots on a adventuring party. Backup implies you have the basics down first. Also, mythological bard-types are cool inspirations to use but are probably solo epic scale figures that were not part of a 'hero group' as we know them in D&D. Bard isn't for everybody and I'd be willing to state it is for players who are sick of dungeoncrawl-hack n slash and want more urban based adventures. Me and some friends made a group of all bards for a gencon event once, and yup we got our butts kicked but we had tons of fun up to the point of combat. We knew it going in. 4E should chuck bards altogether or just use that Warlord-leader idea.