Wizards in a rough patch?

[Mark CMG]

Does anyone else feel this way?

Does anyone else feel this way?

It seems to me as if Wizards has made it their primary business of handling the classic topics, while third party publishers have had to seek out more esoteric subjects. Some of those third party publishers really had a rough go of it (some aren't around anymore), but the survivors seem to have plumbed out the depths of the fringe territory and are churning out some pretty good stuff.

This, however, is somewhat new to Wizards and I must say, there recent adventurous forays are NOT doing it for me. Heroes of Battle and Weapons of Legacy got left on the shelf by me. And Magic of Incarnum has me very skeptical. But the titles a little futher in the future are looking promising. Is it just a learning process?

I think that the less of what WotC puts out as OGC, the less compatible it will be with third party material, and therefore the less likely both will easily fit together in the same game. For those who don't mind and use plenty of third party material, WotC non-OGC material is just more material that isn't written with that bigger picture in mind (from WotC's side or from the third party side) and likely requires a bit more work to fit into that bigger picture game.

 

[Turjan]

I don't see WotC going through a rough patch lately, at least not more so than they have already done for a while. But it is correct that the books that came out lately don't appeal to everyone, unlike most of the general topics that were published in the beginning, when there was no competition and the big topics were still waiting for the first one to touch them.

• The "Complete" series was the last thing that was a sure seller. Those books replaced the class splats of 3.0 and were of general applicability.
  
• The "Races of" series was already less crucial, but as the core races are still the most used ones for PCs, those books must have been good sellers (I didn't buy them, btw, because I'm fine with the old Green Ronin splats, but I guess that I am an exception here ).
  
• Monsters always sell, and the Draconomicon pictures dragons, which should be a no-brainer with most D&D fans. Libris Mortis tackles undead, which are also fan favorites (I didn't buy that one, either, as I'm not a big undead fan, but I'm not that delusional that I think that this is the norm). Lords of Madness is already a bit of a fringe product, even if it contains some big D&D icons as beholders and mind flayers (one of my two favorite WotC books this year ).
  
• The environmental series has the problem that it addresses very specific subsets of players. Whether people use deserts or the seas in their games or not depends very much on the preferences of the DM.
  
• Then comes the "Heroes of..." series, and I have the problem to immediately see what the books are about. Heroes of Battle? But we battle all the time?
  
• Magic of Incarnum? I really have to look what it is about. I'll probably give this a pass, as I have already enough third party books that are built around some similar ideas.
  
• Weapons of Legacy? Do those differ in any way from the legacy weapons in "Artifacts of the Ages"? I also don't have the need for getting this topic another time.

This means that the last books have very narrow topics. For people who have been buying lots of d20 books during the last years, many of the topics of the recent WotC books sound awfully familiar when they look at their shelves. I don't see this as a problem for WotC though. On this messageboard, we have lots of people who buy d20 products, and if everyone of the general D&D fans would buy as many d20 books as many of us here, there wouldn't be much of a problem for d20 companies.

This means that we have to be cautious with detecting a "rough patch" for WotC here. This may well be the product of the specific outlook many members of this board have on what is already available in the d20 market.

 

[Wombat]

I'm split on this.

On the one hand, there have been very few of their books that I have picked up since the switch to 3.5 and, of those, fewer that I've really enjoyed. Liber Mortis is about the only one that springs to mind as a winner for me, and even there I have some strong reservations. Very few of my friends are really "wowed" by any of the WotC offerings either, but that may be mainly because most groups are self-selecting -- we all like rpgs, but we are willing to experiment with many systems and companies, etc., and all of us prefer homebrews to packaged settings, thus we are the antithesis of who WotC is catering to.

On the other hand, of course, there are sales. D&D IS roleplaying games. It outsells all others, period. People have been picking up the minis almost like people used to pick up Magic (and much like M:tG, I know more people who collect than actively use the minis). My FLGS says that rpg sales are down in general, but amongst rpgs the WotC stuff accounts for 60% of his sales. All the rest of them combined make up 40% and he is thinking of dropping some of low-selling lines (Heroes, Palladium, etc.).

So I don't think I'd say they are going through a "rough patch". Instead I think there is simply a certain amount of fall-away amongst certain types of gamers. Compared to other companies in the "industry" they are doing okay; compared to my tastes they are not, but that is an entirely separate matter.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I have to say that the recent WotC books I've purchased have been generally pretty good. DMGII is outstanding, Frostburn is fantastic, Sandstorm is pretty good. Complete Arcane introduced the Warlock, which, to me, is the most exciting addition to the core classes since 3e was released.

That said, I've been left generally neutral about the "Races" books. On one hand, I like: standardized NPC statblocks of various characters types, and love that they mix 'n' match them into various types of groups; the Goliaths of Races of Stone are interesting, and I may use them; I like many of the new magic items and pieces of equipment. On the other hand, I'm not too fond of: the fluff text, which, while OK, just doesn't capture my imagination; many of the Prestige Classes just seem blah; some of the new races just don't seem all that interesting to me.

I felt Libris Mortis was a dud. It just does nothing for me.

I haven't had a chance to look at Heroes of Battle yet, though I have ordered it.

I guess I don't see WotC in a creative slump, but I do feel they are beginning to lose steam, since the don't seem to be innovating all that much lately. As said above, Iron Heroes is, in my opinion, one of the best innovations to the game since it was released. Licensed properties like Conan, Black Company, or Thieves World have proven to be outstanding, and one has to wonder how WotC would do with such a property...Wheel of Time was pretty good, but I'd love to see them get, say, Lankhmar back and do it right.

 

[MerricB]

I guess I don't see WotC in a creative slump, but I do feel they are beginning to lose steam, since the don't seem to be innovating all that much lately.

It's funny how perceptions differ. I thought they were doing more innovation now than ever.

* Fantastic Locations - adventure + mini-scaled maps.
* Weapons of Legacy - advancing weapons.
* Heroes of Battle - new format of DM advice. The entire "battle as dungeon" idea and the structure to do so; completely different from the traditional method of "let's sell a wargame".
* Races of Eberron - mindset spells

Weapons of Legacy has been absurdly popular with my players. To their eyes and mine, the penalties are well worth the bonuses they get. OTOH, I find Lords of Madness to be profoundly uninteresting.

Cheers!

 

[Sunderstone]

I dont know about a "rough patch" opinions may vary.

Im not thrilled at all with WotC's lineup for the coming months. Looks like Tome of Magic might be the only purchase. I dont have any interest in Weapons of Legacy and/or Magic of Incarnum.

The Gruumsh FR adventure is a possible buy unless its heavily based on the Miniatures aspect. I dont like Eberron so Im not buying anything in that line either.

 

[Nightfall]

If I was sure, I wouldn't have solicited opinions.

That said, I am not the only person to complain about Weapons of Legacy.

No especially when compared to other ways of leveling weapons out there. I mean sure, overall it's balanced but there are still aspects to Weapons of Legacy that I feel could be better addressed both mechanics and in some cases fluff.

DMGII was good but I also felt like "I should really have Advanced Gamemaster's Guide" if only to start keeping track with GR's really awesome series as well as the fact, like you Psion, I'm looking forward greatly to Advanced Races and Advanced Classes.

For me, I am getting Magic of Eberron, but ONLY because I'm in an Eberron game.

Tome of Magic, is a buy because a) Ari wrote some of it. and b) I want to see how he worked Shadow Magic AND if he made a new/revised Penumbral Lord. The old one was/is in serious need of retooling.

 

[Turjan]

No especially when compared to other ways of leveling weapons out there. I mean sure, overall it's balanced but there are still aspects to Weapons of Legacy that I feel could be better addressed both mechanics and in some cases fluff.

Not to highjack the thread, but can you compare it to the legacy weapons advancement rules in "Artifacts of the Ages"?

 

[Nightfall]

Well it goes like this: In Artifacts of Ages, you have to take a Prestige class which gets you access to the weapons abilities. In Weapons of Legacy, you do have an "entry" form but with more penalties associated with it than just taking another class. Also I believe Scion classes, for monks and paladins, don't count as multiclassing but I admit I could be wrong.

 

[the Jester]

Well, some of the new books don't really do it for me. There are certain specific things I strongly dislike in WotC's current line of products- the insistence on including a half dozen new races in every book, for instance (which I find much harder to integrate into my campaign than monsters, feats, spells or prcs)- but there are also things I really like (especially all the adventure locales that have appeared in, f'rinstance, the environment books).

After looking at Weapons of Legacy I wasn't impressed. I would have much preferred a book full of new magic items, rather than one item per page or less goodies that inflict penalties on their users (wtf??). imho WoL would have been better served by 'turning the items up' without also slapping pcs with a penalty- it's a mechanic I'd be unlikely to be attracted to as a player, and one I'm disappointed with as a dm.

There are some things on the horizon that I'm pretty much certain to get- new minis, the big spell book, the Fantastic Locations stuff (or whatever it's called), new environment books if they do 'em, etc- and there are some things I'm pretty up in the air about (I am not getting PHB2 if it's a bunch of crap from the Complete line reprinted!).