Wizards killing products?

[radferth]

I'd give Gf the benefit of the doubt and assume he did not include Dungeon and Dragon in the none, either because they seem so official as to not be separate from WotC, or because they are magazines. I personally don't care for the spikey-heroic art that seems popular in d20, but Paizo certainly does it at least as well a wizards. Not to mention y'all had those really cool Greyhawk maps.

 

[DaveMage]

Really?

Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Paizo Publishing

Too funny.

Shackled city, IMO, production-wise, *has* beaten anything that WotC has ever done.

Of course, WotC has never done a 400+ page D&D book.

 

[Nightfall]

Too funny.

Shackled city, IMO, production-wise, *has* beaten anything that WotC has ever done.

Of course, WotC has never done a 400+ page D&D book.

Or done quite as well as Pazio did.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

There is no publisher that can even come close to touching WotC for production values. None. Period. Seriously, is this a loaded question?

As far as game balance and editing The Book of Fiends, ToH II, and Advanced Bestiary easily trump MMIII.

I prefer Arcana Evolved to the D&D line for production values. Better art (than the core books, anyway), cleaner layout and text, none of that nasty "aged parchment" background, and nice bright contrast and colour use. It's the only book I've seen (including Arcana Unearthed) that can really stand up to WotC's books.

 

[Nightfall]

You obviously missed out on Shackled City man. I'm not saying AE isn't as good, just saying it's a GREAT book, production values and such.

 

[Garnfellow]

I'd give Gf the benefit of the doubt and assume he did not include Dungeon and Dragon in the none, either because they seem so official as to not be separate from WotC, or because they are magazines. I personally don't care for the spikey-heroic art that seems popular in d20, but Paizo certainly does it at least as well a wizards. Not to mention y'all had those really cool Greyhawk maps.

'Tis true -- I still unconsciously think of Paizo as an adjunct of Wizards and not a separate publisher, which is dead wrong. And I haven't seen the Shackled City book, though it's been getting universal raves.

 

[Psion]

'Tis true -- I still unconsciously think of Paizo as an adjunct of Wizards and not a separate publisher,

I certainly think this perception -- along with the wide latitudes they have -- has helped them.

And the job they did on the book really put it over the top.

I can't wait for Dragon compendium.

 

[woodelf]

As far as as Primeval Groves is concerned, do you really think it's altogether better than most WotC books? I really like the book, and art and concept are top notch, but the book has 19 pages of corrected errata . Kudos to them for dealing with the errata, but it's not really an example for superior editing .

Except, the majority of the mistakes are in statblocks. If the corrections hadn't been printed, i never would've known the mistakes are there. So, IMHO, they are non-issues.

And, from my purely-subjective POV: i bought Primeval Groves. I haven't bought any WotC monster books. So, yes, i think it's better--that's why i bought it. And, based on the frequency with which i use the monsters from the D20SRd, i doubt i would use the MM much, even if i owned a copy.

 

[woodelf]

I'm also not looking for your favorite non-WotC books. The point is to say... XYZ is equal to, or better than a similar non-WotC book

Spycraft 1.0 is in all ways--production values, design/layout, art, editing, content--better than D20 Modern. It looks like Spycraft 2.0 is, too.

Arcana Unearthed is in all ways better than D&d3E PH.

Beyond Countless Doorways is in all ways better than Manual of the Planes.

Fantasy Bestiary is in all ways better than Monster Manual, Monster Manual II, or Fiend Folio.

There are others, but they don't come immediately to mind, because they aren't sitting on my shelf.

Does that better answer your question?

 

[woodelf]

Not superhero books, not alternative versions of DnD with different classes in a different setting using different rules.

Just normal DnD books.

Certain element of tomato/tomahto, here: I don't consider Arcana Unearthed any more radical than Complete Arcane.

Ok. I tried.

I'm getting the impression that this thread isn't really going to stick to the point that I was interested in looking at. (Usually this happens when the thread topic is pedantic or boring so there you go).

Anyway, thanks to the folks who responded.

Well, yes, some posts have strayed. But others are perfectly in line--just maybe not what you expected. Even limiting it to "D&D supplements", rather than "stand-alone games", i'd probably still include Arcana Unearthed on the list. AFAIC, it is "D&D", at least as much-so as the D&D3E books, and lots of people use bits and pieces of it, just like they do Tome & Blood or Complete Warrior.