Scribble
First Post
Man- for YEARS before I went to film school... I used to think Alan Smithee was just the worst director EVER!
I was like man... why do they keep giving that dude jobs???
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Wizards: Musings on the new DDi disaster
- Thread starter MerricB
- Start date
Man- for YEARS before I went to film school... I used to think Alan Smithee was just the worst director EVER!
I was like man... why do they keep giving that dude jobs???
His Dudeness
First Post
Going web with the CB looks like a desition made to please the higher ups (we are doing something about piracy, see!?) instead of the costumers.
Which is really really stupid of course.
Which is really really stupid of course.
renau1g
First Post
Canor Morum
First Post
I think any unknown author/artist having their work published by WotC would be the best thing that ever happened to them. The resulting publicity if there was a copyright dispute would only benefit the creator.
If you're that worried about Wizards stealing your character concepts or campaign stories, write it out and copyright it.
If you're that worried about Wizards stealing your character concepts or campaign stories, write it out and copyright it.
Last edited:
Festivus
First Post
Well, I am a DDI subscriber, but not for much longer. With all the recent changes with DDI and Living Forgotten Realms really has pushed me away as a customer.
With all the recent changes to LFR, it has come to the point where I can't get hardly any LFR games at my monthly meetup.
Essentials isn't what I really want. I like that essentials is easier to use, but I don't like that it is the only option right now for new product.
Reprints of dungeon tiles with a few new ones mixed in.
Monster book that comes bundled with a bunch of tokens I don't need... why can't I just buy the book?
Starter set that wasn't really a starter set... more like a beginner adventure.
Heroes books that reprint a lot between them. Why can't I just have a book with character options?
DM Kit that I have no need for... why can't I just buy the adventure?
DDI - I am fine that the CB in online only but it doesn't work! Not ready for prime time. Not secure. The Dungeon and Dragon content that basically is crap salad. Beyond those few poor articles in the magazines, I get not much that is useful. Oh, monster builder is still a bit broken, but it's going to have to do.
The only book I do like the rules compendium. It eliminated the need for me to have a DDI subscription. Go team!
With all the recent changes to LFR, it has come to the point where I can't get hardly any LFR games at my monthly meetup.
Essentials isn't what I really want. I like that essentials is easier to use, but I don't like that it is the only option right now for new product.
Reprints of dungeon tiles with a few new ones mixed in.
Monster book that comes bundled with a bunch of tokens I don't need... why can't I just buy the book?
Starter set that wasn't really a starter set... more like a beginner adventure.
Heroes books that reprint a lot between them. Why can't I just have a book with character options?
DM Kit that I have no need for... why can't I just buy the adventure?
DDI - I am fine that the CB in online only but it doesn't work! Not ready for prime time. Not secure. The Dungeon and Dragon content that basically is crap salad. Beyond those few poor articles in the magazines, I get not much that is useful. Oh, monster builder is still a bit broken, but it's going to have to do.
The only book I do like the rules compendium. It eliminated the need for me to have a DDI subscription. Go team!
knifie_sp00nie
First Post
I think the only people that think Essentials, the new character builder, and WotC marketing are failures are people that like to gripe on message boards.
If you don't follow these threads, DnD has no glaring issues and plays just fine as written. If you subscribed to DDI any time after Nov. 16th you have no clue that there was an old character builder.
I think Wizards is focusing on the future and long-term growth. If you're loudly complaining that your specific desires aren't being catered to then WotC probably wishes you would just go away. (Standard boilerplate about this being a generalization and that rational, constructive criticism isn't included, etc.)
From a technology standpoint, new users will be accustomed to using computers and software to accomplish most tasks. In the near future internet connectivity anywhere will be a non-issue. It's already that way where I live and cellular networks keep getting faster. Subscription services aren't a big deal and they will only grow.
Since I got Netflix I can count the number of DVDs I've purchased on one hand. Entertainment is essentially "disposable" and pretty much always has been. Shakespeare wrote plays to make money so he could pay the rent and not to provide high schools with material for drama class many years in the future. Dungeons and Dragons is no different.
For a new player Tieflings and Dragonborn have always existed. Legolas rode his shield just like how it was written in that book the movie is based on. Conan is either a talk show host or the governor of California. Greedo shot first, etc. You are the past and there is a new cultural baseline.
Why should WotC try to offer anything to a segment of the customer base that actively tries to discourage new players, over-scrutinizes everything they do, and proudly boasts about how much product they aren't buying?
If you don't follow these threads, DnD has no glaring issues and plays just fine as written. If you subscribed to DDI any time after Nov. 16th you have no clue that there was an old character builder.
I think Wizards is focusing on the future and long-term growth. If you're loudly complaining that your specific desires aren't being catered to then WotC probably wishes you would just go away. (Standard boilerplate about this being a generalization and that rational, constructive criticism isn't included, etc.)
From a technology standpoint, new users will be accustomed to using computers and software to accomplish most tasks. In the near future internet connectivity anywhere will be a non-issue. It's already that way where I live and cellular networks keep getting faster. Subscription services aren't a big deal and they will only grow.
Since I got Netflix I can count the number of DVDs I've purchased on one hand. Entertainment is essentially "disposable" and pretty much always has been. Shakespeare wrote plays to make money so he could pay the rent and not to provide high schools with material for drama class many years in the future. Dungeons and Dragons is no different.
For a new player Tieflings and Dragonborn have always existed. Legolas rode his shield just like how it was written in that book the movie is based on. Conan is either a talk show host or the governor of California. Greedo shot first, etc. You are the past and there is a new cultural baseline.
Why should WotC try to offer anything to a segment of the customer base that actively tries to discourage new players, over-scrutinizes everything they do, and proudly boasts about how much product they aren't buying?
w_earle_wheeler
First Post
4e had great potential, but much of the "oomp" of the launch was lost because their best introductory product "Keep on the Shadowfell" was priced to high to be a reasonable intro to the game. Also, at that time, Wizards was trying to pull their PR on 4e into the insider model -- meaning that it didn't have the media saturation and energy that the 3e launch had. That was strike one.
Then there was the DDI. Before the DDI, WotC representatives posting on message boards often said that the internet community, and enworld specifically, only represented a very small portion of potential customers, and the opinions given online were skewed -- kind of like the "loud majority" illusion when the most soundbyte worthy clique in a political party gets all the television coverage, no matter how connected to the rest of the group they really are.
As soon as DDI plans were announced, that position was reversed, because they wanted they dollars of online gamers. Smart move -- but THEN they proceeded to not listen to their target market again by pouring resources into the Gleemax black hole and an untested software development company (which ended in unforeseeable real human tragedy).
So, 4e is launched. KotSF is out for a version of the game which "needs" -- even more than the original version, which sprung directly out of a wargame -- miniatures. There is no miniature pack made of KotSF, just random miniature boosters, which leaves DMs to turn to third party token designers or Reaper (or even GW) minis.
The DDI doesn't really exist in any real way at launch, and the PHB contains a teasing add for it, featuring a virtual tabletop.
Fast forward to DDI's maturity, and for half the monthly cost of a WoW online account (give or take) you are offered Dragon Magazine, Dungeon Magazine, a pretty neat Character Builder and the Rules Compendium (which pretty much requires an active connection). However, .pdfs of the books for sale are ended.
DDI continues, Gleemax is dead. Even though everyone knows the VTT, Dice Roller, Character Visualizer, etc. aren't going to happen, we're still left wondering: is this all this is? DDI remains in what seems to be an alpha state for years, giving customers a nice Monster Builder tool, but not much else. The Character Builder, while still quite nice, because more and more obsolete because it doesn't regularly include or calculate all prestige class powers or bonuses or little tricky bits. More and more, things feel a bit unfinished, and the tool seems more bloated and half-assed with each update.
Lots of books come out for 4e. Lots of books can be found for sale in used bookstores or remainder outlets. It's not a failure, but it hasn't lived up to it's potential.
Then comes the 4es launch. It is basically like the 3.5 launch, except the PR is focused on making it not seem like 3.5. Meanwhile, with the huge amount of bland and seemingly randomized new powers and options that have come out prior to 4es, it seems like a good potential place to start cleaning things up a bit.
The problem?
4e never ended, so it feels like another abandoned edition -- we are in a constant state of beta to beta with no "complete" feeling product to build off of. You can use all the previous books with 4es... except, you probably weren't using those books anyway because the game was specifically designed to have so many fiddly and similar-seeming options (this power moves the enemy one square! this power pulls him one square! add in a random damage type! why is this power special and cool again?) that most people NEED a computer too to manage them.
And, in the spirit of beta to beta from a company that never completes anything for their D&D line, the nice character builder tool which could have been polished a bit more and perfected is dumped. All those blank buttons on the Adventure tools remain a potential opportunity that WotC missed. While the "new" online DDI may be advertised as an upgrade or the next step, it really is just something new. Another bit of beta software made because the previous beta software wasn't finished.
Miss potential. Who really believes that the new DDI will do everything the previous DDI did but better? And who thinks it will ever become anything resembling a "finished" suite of tools?
So, we have the DDI in a mess and the 4es books replacing the older ones on the shelf. Now we can start a new D&D group with one player who has the original 4e PHB and tries to use it without the errata. That player may not even use the CB. He probably does all his math by hand, makes his own cards, and consistently has the math wrong. They guy next to him has the PHB, and a few of the splatbooks and the old CB program still on his computer. The thirdy guy has the 4es books but doesn't have access to the new DDI so he doesn't have a CB program for his 4es characters. The fourth dude just uses everyone else's resources, and the DM has his DDI subscription still going, but he isn't even playing a character, so he isn't impressed by it.
Everyone at the table has a different FAQ or Errata, maybe even a different edition and a different tool to make their characters, and it just becomes a huge mess. What happens?
They eventually take a break from D&D -- one of those breaks that might last five years. A few of them sell their books to the used bookstore. The group picks up a system like Pathfinder or something more organic like Savage Worlds. Maybe they even go with board games instead.
Lost potential.
Then there was the DDI. Before the DDI, WotC representatives posting on message boards often said that the internet community, and enworld specifically, only represented a very small portion of potential customers, and the opinions given online were skewed -- kind of like the "loud majority" illusion when the most soundbyte worthy clique in a political party gets all the television coverage, no matter how connected to the rest of the group they really are.
As soon as DDI plans were announced, that position was reversed, because they wanted they dollars of online gamers. Smart move -- but THEN they proceeded to not listen to their target market again by pouring resources into the Gleemax black hole and an untested software development company (which ended in unforeseeable real human tragedy).
So, 4e is launched. KotSF is out for a version of the game which "needs" -- even more than the original version, which sprung directly out of a wargame -- miniatures. There is no miniature pack made of KotSF, just random miniature boosters, which leaves DMs to turn to third party token designers or Reaper (or even GW) minis.
The DDI doesn't really exist in any real way at launch, and the PHB contains a teasing add for it, featuring a virtual tabletop.
Fast forward to DDI's maturity, and for half the monthly cost of a WoW online account (give or take) you are offered Dragon Magazine, Dungeon Magazine, a pretty neat Character Builder and the Rules Compendium (which pretty much requires an active connection). However, .pdfs of the books for sale are ended.
DDI continues, Gleemax is dead. Even though everyone knows the VTT, Dice Roller, Character Visualizer, etc. aren't going to happen, we're still left wondering: is this all this is? DDI remains in what seems to be an alpha state for years, giving customers a nice Monster Builder tool, but not much else. The Character Builder, while still quite nice, because more and more obsolete because it doesn't regularly include or calculate all prestige class powers or bonuses or little tricky bits. More and more, things feel a bit unfinished, and the tool seems more bloated and half-assed with each update.
Lots of books come out for 4e. Lots of books can be found for sale in used bookstores or remainder outlets. It's not a failure, but it hasn't lived up to it's potential.
Then comes the 4es launch. It is basically like the 3.5 launch, except the PR is focused on making it not seem like 3.5. Meanwhile, with the huge amount of bland and seemingly randomized new powers and options that have come out prior to 4es, it seems like a good potential place to start cleaning things up a bit.
The problem?
4e never ended, so it feels like another abandoned edition -- we are in a constant state of beta to beta with no "complete" feeling product to build off of. You can use all the previous books with 4es... except, you probably weren't using those books anyway because the game was specifically designed to have so many fiddly and similar-seeming options (this power moves the enemy one square! this power pulls him one square! add in a random damage type! why is this power special and cool again?) that most people NEED a computer too to manage them.
And, in the spirit of beta to beta from a company that never completes anything for their D&D line, the nice character builder tool which could have been polished a bit more and perfected is dumped. All those blank buttons on the Adventure tools remain a potential opportunity that WotC missed. While the "new" online DDI may be advertised as an upgrade or the next step, it really is just something new. Another bit of beta software made because the previous beta software wasn't finished.
Miss potential. Who really believes that the new DDI will do everything the previous DDI did but better? And who thinks it will ever become anything resembling a "finished" suite of tools?
So, we have the DDI in a mess and the 4es books replacing the older ones on the shelf. Now we can start a new D&D group with one player who has the original 4e PHB and tries to use it without the errata. That player may not even use the CB. He probably does all his math by hand, makes his own cards, and consistently has the math wrong. They guy next to him has the PHB, and a few of the splatbooks and the old CB program still on his computer. The thirdy guy has the 4es books but doesn't have access to the new DDI so he doesn't have a CB program for his 4es characters. The fourth dude just uses everyone else's resources, and the DM has his DDI subscription still going, but he isn't even playing a character, so he isn't impressed by it.
Everyone at the table has a different FAQ or Errata, maybe even a different edition and a different tool to make their characters, and it just becomes a huge mess. What happens?
They eventually take a break from D&D -- one of those breaks that might last five years. A few of them sell their books to the used bookstore. The group picks up a system like Pathfinder or something more organic like Savage Worlds. Maybe they even go with board games instead.
Lost potential.
I'm a little tired of hearing this argument (not your fault, Shidaku).
No, no one NEEDS DDI to play, but making a character with multiple source-books without the Character Builder, is like typing a novel with a typewriter instead of a word processing program. It can be done, but certainly isn't easy or expected by anyone in this day and age of digital conveniences.
the Jester
Legend
I totally and completely disagree.
There are a lot of gamers without DDI subs that have never used the CB, and there are groups that don't bother with it because of the number of house rules and options they use, and there are groups that just don't use it because they just plain don't even if they do have a DDI sub.
I know that sounds absurd, but I have been in groups of all three of those descriptions. In fact, when I run a game at the place my current group usually plays, I have banned the CB during sessions since the host's computer is like 80 years old and it takes him literally over an hour to update a character.
