Wizards, need your input.

[1720xx]

To be honest, What I miss isn´t the damage, it´s those wierd spells that you just kind of wanted to have. You know, clean, things like that. I even miss eagles splendor and charm person. Granted I think that it´s lousy that WOTC confirming Dump stat mentality, Depending on the concept of the character, all stats are potentially useful, I liked that in chapter 1 of the PHB, then I get to chapter 4 and personally I will never be lower than a cha 14, I like orb mastery, and I am a constitution person. First level, I am being penalized for being something other than a cookie cutter? WOW talk about taking the entire D&D as well as MMO world back to the DOOM days. Can't use the BFG effectively don't play. Working with the DM to allow an attribute swap CHA for WIS on the orb powers, since both represent aspects of the characters will, I just don't play shy little book worm wizards. Hopefully people understand why that is important to me.

 

[Obryn]

It's funny. My players ran through the demo this week and remarked on how much more powerful wizards are in 4e.

Those hit points and at-will spells go a long way.

-O

 

[1720xx]

It's funny. My players ran through the demo this week and remarked on how much more powerful wizards are in 4e.

Those hit points and at-will spells go a long way.

-O

I agree with that. I love the at will and Encounter powers.

 

[Obryn]

To be honest, What I miss isn´t the damage, it´s those wierd spells that you just kind of wanted to have. You know, clean, things like that. I even miss eagles splendor and charm person. Granted I think that it´s lousy that WOTC confirming Dump stat mentality, Depending on the concept of the character, all stats are potentially useful, I liked that in chapter 1 of the PHB, then I get to chapter 4 and personally I will never be lower than a cha 14, I like orb mastery, and I am a constitution person. First level, I am being penalized for being something other than a cookie cutter? WOW talk about taking the entire D&D as well as MMO world back to the DOOM days. Can't use the BFG effectively don't play. Working with the DM to allow an attribute swap CHA for WIS on the orb powers, since both represent aspects of the characters will, I just don't play shy little book worm wizards. Hopefully people understand why that is important to me.

Wait, what?

How are you being penalized at 1st level?

Every choice you make on your character is going to be a trade-off. You want to get Spell Focus? Might want to spend a few points on Charisma. You love Orbs? Might want to pay attention to your Wisdom. You want a high Constitution? You'll get some perks out of it (esp. healing surges), but it will no more affect your spells than it did in 3e.

I mean, Orb + Spell Focus is a deadly combination. It's pretty reasonable to expect a price - and that price is in stat allotment. I like when people have to make decisions for their character.

-O

 

[1720xx]

Wait, what?

How are you being penalized at 1st level?

Every choice you make on your character is going to be a trade-off. You want to get Spell Focus? Might want to spend a few points on Charisma. You love Orbs? Might want to pay attention to your Wisdom. You want a high Constitution? You'll get some perks out of it (esp. healing surges), but it will no more affect your spells than it did in 3e.

I mean, Orb + Spell Focus is a deadly combination. It's pretty reasonable to expect a price - and that price is in stat allotment. I like when people have to make decisions for their character.

-O

Yes, But in trade, I don't prefer wisdom as a stat, I personally think that mental resolve and common sense often conflict with academic and intellectual geniuses, i.e. an engineer I know who is a card carrying member of Mensa, but wears velcro shoes because he can't tie them, and got arrested for breaking into his own house when he lockedhimself out/set the alarm. but can design a skyscraper in his sleep. that whole genius and insanity line. Makes for some fun there. Just wish they had given a set of 3 or 4 attributes in the secondary/tertiary group and said pick 2 that will sort of complement each other, eg charismavs wisdom, or dex vs strength. Yes spell focus is evil, Yes, I have a 15 cha, and already qualigy, I traded for a 10 wisdom, making my orb modifiers a 0. But still I like extending effects like ray of frost. I btw refuse to raise wisdom any higher, as it is in the character concept, Genius, but no clue as far as common sense goes.

 

[Plissken]

Sure, he had 4hp and now they have 15+, but the monsters always hit like 12-20 hp now. The at-will spells are too weak to really do much and with 50-50 saves, area spells suck. Sure, you can reduce the enemies saving throw, but now you have to invest points into wisdom.

It would have been nice if some of the weaker 1st-level at-will spells leveled up. So, for example, Magic Missile would have more than 1 missile.

 

[Obryn]

Yes, But in trade, I don't prefer wisdom as a stat, I personally think that mental resolve and common sense often conflict with academic and intellectual geniuses, i.e. an engineer I know who is a card carrying member of Mensa, but wears velcro shoes because he can't tie them, and got arrested for breaking into his own house when he lockedhimself out/set the alarm. but can design a skyscraper in his sleep. that whole genius and insanity line. Makes for some fun there. Just wish they had given a set of 3 or 4 attributes in the secondary/tertiary group and said pick 2 that will sort of complement each other, eg charismavs wisdom, or dex vs strength. Yes spell focus is evil, Yes, I have a 15 cha, and already qualigy, I traded for a 10 wisdom, making my orb modifiers a 0. But still I like extending effects like ray of frost. I btw refuse to raise wisdom any higher, as it is in the character concept, Genius, but no clue as far as common sense goes.

Here's the thing, though - it may be magic, but it follows certain rules in the game. You wanting your orb to do great stuff, without the Wisdom investment, is a little like wanting a fighter who deals tons of damage, without the Strength investment. (Well, that's an exaggeration, but I think the point is there.)

Within the magic rules, Orbs use Wisdom. I'm pretty sure this was counterbalanced (or counter-enhanced) with other uses of Wisdom in the game, like the 1st-level At-Will Swarm of Daggers (or whatever) power.

Generally, when a class needs a lot of stats, it's a balancing mechanism. Your group can naturally do whatever you'd like, but you may run into some funny problems down the road.

-O

 

[Obryn]

Sure, he had 4hp and now they have 15+, but the monsters always hit like 12-20 hp now. The at-will spells are too weak to really do much and with 50-50 saves, area spells suck. Sure, you can reduce the enemies saving throw, but now you have to invest points into wisdom.

It would have been nice if some of the weaker 1st-level at-will spells leveled up. So, for example, Magic Missile would have more than 1 missile.

Um... Have you tried the game? Saves have nothing to do with area spells for at least the first round, and have nothing to do with damaging opponents. And I don't know what monsters are always hitting for 12-20 damage at 1st level...

Wizards' 1st-level at-will powers are in line with most everyone else's, as far as damage goes. Lots of them are pretty sweet in use. I don't think anyone else gets at-will area spells...

-O

 

[Xorn]

Clean = Prestidigitation

 

[Kraydak]

The 4e wizard is poorly designed and play-tested. Full Stop. As proof: Orb of Imposition. The Orb of Imposition ability is that problematic and that obviously problematic.

How much does that matter? It remains a topic of debate. I can't suggest you play a wizard in a campaign that goes past the Heroic Tier though.