Wizards of the Coast Re-Registers Dark Sun With USPTO

Wizards of the Coast recently filed an application to register Dark Sun in the US, a sign that D&D could be bringing back the campaign setting in the near future. The trademark claim was filed on October 13th, 2025 and is poised to replace a previous trademark that was cancelled by the USPTO in 2024. The trademark, like most involving D&D properties, covers both "downloadable electronic games," "games and playthings," and "entertainment services." Similar active trademarks exist for other D&D campaign settings such as Spelljammer and Forgotten Realms, although neither of those have lapsed in recent years.

We'll note that, as the previous Dark Sun trademark lapsed a year ago, this could be a case of simple paperwork, or it could be the latest sign that a Dark Sun product is eminent. Earlier this year, Wizards released an Unearthed Arcana for the Psion class and several subclasses that all but spelled out a return to the setting, complete with mentions of sorcerer-kings, gladiatorial fights, and preservers and defilers.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

all the D&D tropes and flipped them 180 degrees

The tropes that were flipped were Tolkien tropes, and what they were replaced with were tropes that had been in OD&D and lost in BX and AD&D.

But it still had classes and levels and spells and abilities and xp and weapons and armour and monsters to kill. It’s fundamentally the same game.

It's as close to the 2e Core Rules as d20 Star Wars was to Core 3e.

Because AD&D was always envisioned as a generic game system, not one limited to Tolkienesque Fantasy.

New Dark Sun will have to hew closer to the expectations of the Core Rules

But will be very different to AD&D 2nd edition, so that box is ticked.

Really, what point are you trying to make? The target audience will just want it to be good, they won’t care how like or unlike it is to the core rules, or how like or unlike it is to the 1991 version.

 

[Remathilis]

The tropes that were flipped were Tolkien tropes, and what they were replaced with were tropes that had been in OD&D and lost in BX and AD&D.

Nope. OD&D still had Gods and Arcane magic that didn't ruin the ecosystem. It had goblins and orcs and beholders and real dragons. It had plate mail and steel swords. It didn't have psionics everywhere. It was strictly an inversion of what came before.

But it still had classes and levels and spells and abilities and xp and weapons and armour and monsters to kill. It’s fundamentally the same game.

So did plenty of other RPGs at the time. By that definition, RIFTs is fundamentally the same game!Because AD&D was always envisioned as a generic game system, not one limited to Tolkienesque Fantasy.

Because AD&D was always envisioned as a generic game system, not one limited to Tolkienesque Fantasy.

No. It. Is. Not! D&D is a terrible generic system and is only good for emulating D&D. I think Dark Sun proved how bad D&D was because it required a practical rewrite of the PHB to make it work. I don't consider that a win. If the first thing your setting for a system does is tell you to throw the core rulebooks in the dumpster, you don't have a supplement for that game, you have a stealth new system wearing the trade dress of the old game.

Really, what point are you trying to make? The target audience will just want it to be good, they won’t care how like or unlike it is to the core rules, or how like or unlike it is to the 1991 version

I want to believe that, but I have a feeling that "good" is going to be "reprint the 1991 box, but the AC goes upwards". Setting fans get uppity when their setting is changed and Dark Sun seems to be the worst (though Ravenloft fans are right up there, while Realms fans are like "first time?"). I recall someone arguing 5e Dark Sun would have to ban barbarians(!) because unarmored defense is OP in DS. Barbarians! In Athas! No way that guy is going to accept spellcasting bards as anything but a betrayal.

Hopefully enough new fans come in (new meaning never played the old or didn't like the old) and mix with the people who like or don't care about the changes to offset the amount of people who will scream bloody murder over those changes. But I wager it's going to be a long period of not even saying the name Dark Sun without some gognard complaining about how WotC ruined their childhood...

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Nope. OD&D still had Gods and Arcane magic that didn't ruin the ecosystem

Fluff. Magic is magic, and many D&D settings wrote out gods because of the potential for deus ex machina.

It had goblins and orcs and beholders and real dragons

Goblins, orcs and dragons = Tolkien.

It had plate mail and steel swords

Swords could be made from unobtanium for all it matters, they are still pointy things for stabbing monsters.

It didn't have psionics everywhere

Psionics was all over 1st edition AD&D (mostly due to the Marion Zimmer Bradly influence) read all the Monster Manual stat blocks under psionics.

No. It. Is. Not! D&D is a terrible generic system

True. But that was still TSR’s ambition for the game. It’s a matter of record.

is only good for emulating D&D.

It’s a good thing Dark Sun is D&D then, or it would be terrible.

the first thing your setting for a system does is tell you to throw the core rulebooks in the dumpster

It said nothing of the sort. Replacing gnomes with giant bugs is not throwing out the rules.

Setting fans get uppity when their setting is changed

They get uppity whatever WotC does, because they are resentful that they are no longer the target audience. They have hated their way into irrelevance.

 

[Remathilis]

Fluff. Magic is magic, and many D&D settings wrote out gods because of the potential for deus ex machina.

Magic is magic except for the whole "wizards are killed on sight" thing.

Goblins, orcs and dragons = Tolkien.

Tolkien did not invent the whole of Western fantasy.

Swords could be made from unobtanium for all it matters, they are still pointy things for stabbing monsters.

So a lightsaber would be appropriate for Dark Sun because it's good for stabbing monsters. Noted.

Psionics was all over 1st edition AD&D (mostly due to the Marion Zimmer Bradly influence) read all the Monster Manual stat blocks under psionics.

Advanced D&D. You claimed Dark Sun was reverting to pre-AD&D (OD&D).

True. But that was still TSR’s ambition for the game. It’s a matter of record.

And it was a tremendous failure, considering how many of the great settings hew close to the PHB defaults.

It’s a good thing Dark Sun is D&D then, or it would be terrible.

Opinions vary. Though to be fair, my complaints are not about the concept of 2e Dark Sun, just the execution.

It said nothing of the sort. Replacing gnomes with giant bugs is not throwing out the rules.

Every class except Fighter and possibly Thief was rewritten for Dark Sun. Every race got different racial traits. Ability score generation was different. Starting level was different. The spellcasting system was different (although not too different) and the equipment table was utterly gone. Even combat got changed due to the equipment table and weapon breakage rules. 2e Dark Sun used I'd say 40% of the 2e PHB and that is being generous. This isn't the same as "replace halfling with kender", it's practically a rewrite of the rules. And the story was they wanted to go further (no elves, dwarves or halflings at all) but management said no.

They get uppity whatever WotC does, because they are resentful that they are no longer the target audience. They have hated their way into irrelevance.

Now here, we agree 100%. Let's end on a bright note.

 

[JoeViturbo]

I'm really excited to see what the new, bowdlerized version of Dark Sun will look like.

Expurgation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Scribe]

I think Baldur's Gate 3 and the continued popularity of gritty and mature RPGs kind of blow up the whole "modern audiences are too weak for Dark Sun" argument. Curse of Strahd is still the most popular 5E adventure, after all. The two new Forgotten Realms books didn't make any effort to "sanitize" the setting. Why would Dark Sun?

Its not the majority of the audience that is the problem.

 

[tetrasodium]

No. It. Is. Not! D&D is a terrible generic system and is only good for emulating D&D. I think Dark Sun proved how bad D&D was because it required a practical rewrite of the PHB to make it work. I don't consider that a win. If the first thing your setting for a system does is tell you to throw the core rulebooks in the dumpster, you don't have a supplement for that game, you have a stealth new system wearing the trade dress of the old game.

I don't think that's true. Truely generic systems like Gurps fate and similar over to the overly broad end of the spectrum like Rifts+splats tend to be so broad that the job of keeping theme/tone/etc for the worked along with each PC reasonably aligned into a near impossible task without some heavy handed pressure or deep agreement across the table among all participants. In being willing to engage in the heavy duty work for the participants those older settings did a great job of showing that d&d as an engine can be flexible enough that it can support wildly different flavors of d&d.

For whatever reason 5e was designed to make that process easier and then just never bothered to do the work of providing the swap in modules needed to support that.