Wizards of the Coasts are overcharging us and "TSR"

Virgil Sagecaster said:
I really like the replies to this post (exspecially the one about conspiricy which was posted by "francisca"). Im not grinding my two-handed ax WoTC and 3.5rdE, Im just stateting that there is a difference between the Gaming Material vs Product Cost. I just believe that ther is more gaming material 2ndE products than 3.5rdE (exspecially the roleplaying part of the game). If you feel differently about mine opinon, please speak openly and with proof. :cool:
I don't dispute that there are more 2e products than there are 3e products, though it does appear that WotC is heading toward the same direction.

TSR made way too many products and product lines to support themselves. While that's good for us customers, it's bad for them because they're running their business down into the ground. Ryan Dancey once stated that he toured TSR's warehouse in Wisconsin and have seen so many unsold and returned products.

You have to remember they don't print and distribute the books for free. They don't even have their own printers. They pay the bookprinting company to make such a large amount of books, and they hope they would get a return when they sold each and every copy of those printed book. If you don't do that, and the expenses you put in the book projects is greater than the sales you get thus far, that is a loss. You have no choice but to reach into your own pocket to make up the debt.

It's even worse when you try to charge less for the book in the hope that it will move sales upward. But again, I point to that Ryan Dancey's interview of his tour at TSR's warehouse in Wisconsin. (I don't recall the exact URL but I'm sure someone out there does.)

Let's face it, in a fantasy world, where inflation is non-existent, you can have rulebooks that cost $20 each, and that goes double for the Vampire: The Requiem book. But that isn't the case in the real world where everybody's agenda is to take in more (higher income) and take out less (cost of living).
 
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Ranger REG said:
I don't dispute that there are more 2e products than there are 3e products, though it does appear that WotC is heading toward the same direction.

could have something to do with the fact that 2E was around for about 10 years, and 3E hasnt even had half that yet. ;) give it time...
 

Virgil Sagecaster said:
Have you notice the difference between the amount of content in 2nd Edition and 3rd (3.5) Edition products?

There is an important component missing here. How much content in any given book is content that I don't want or need? If I don't like a book, or don't see enough content that I care about, then I don't purchase the book. It is notable that I have more 1st Ed material and more 3.x material than I have 2nd Ed material. Actually, I left DnD during the 2nd Ed days. I played other game systems. 3.X drew me back.

Yes, there might have been more flavor in some 2nd Ed books, but it was flavor I didn't want or need. In that regard, the 2nd Ed books provided a flat value option - $0 for 0 content. To compare editions, I realized much mroe value from my 1st Ed books than I did from my 2nd Ed books because I got much more use from them. I would have to say that my 3.x books have provided excellent value as well.

So is WotC overcharging? Only on the books that are so lackluster that I am not buying them. And that is only in regards to my purchasing habits.
 

For those that think the second edition books are better then the third edition equivilants, then why not just convert the old books and not buy the new ones? I've found that works very well.
 

I think SKR really has a hard to refute point regarding the magister. Too much focus on NPCs.

That said, I definitely think that some things were done better the first time around. Faiths & Avatars was, well, munchkin when it comes down to it. But really, I still found it valuable because it described the organizations and characteristics of priests thay players would actually meet. F&A was vastly popular, even outside of the FR crowd for this reason.

And in 3e, we get DDG, a deity monster manual. :(

I think there's lots that can be said about products that don't cut the mustard before and after the coming of 3e.
 

I'm don't have much of an opinion on the price of source books, but there is one thing i DID notice.

A D&D 30 year nostalgia/history book sitting on the shelf near the gaming materials, shrinkwrapped.

"Oh" I thought, "That might make a good christmas gift".

Then i read the price tag

$50.00

Clloth map of faerun, some kind of DVD "Making of" for a source book, exclusive gaming materials, miniatures, something?

No, just a book.
 

I find it ironic somehow that TSR is being held up today as a company unmotivated by greed.

Do these nicknames sound familiar? T$R? The Sue Regularly? They Sell Rubbish? I have encountered them all.

No, TSR was greedy, perhaps more so than WotC (though most likely less than Hasbro). They also had an unrealistic financial model. Largely brought about by the price they were paying for type. (Steve Jackson also went to the brink of bankruptcy in the same manner.) They also had a very lenient returns policy (The truest 'ungreedy' mistake that they made.)

And the price of paper did do some scary things since the early eighties.

And the WotC D&D books are on glossy paper, and in color, not cheap.

The Auld Grump
 
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AdonisMT said:
I'm don't have much of an opinion on the price of source books, but there is one thing i DID notice.

A D&D 30 year nostalgia/history book sitting on the shelf near the gaming materials, shrinkwrapped.

"Oh" I thought, "That might make a good christmas gift".

Then i read the price tag

$50.00

Clloth map of faerun, some kind of DVD "Making of" for a source book, exclusive gaming materials, miniatures, something?

No, just a book.
You're referring to the Thirty Years of D&D collector's book. It does have a $50 pricetag, but that's not representitive--that product is a unique offering and probably (I havent' seen it) has very different production costs than standard D&D offerings (such as lots of glossy photos, probably, plus maybe some royaltee fees).

Most D&D hardbacks cost from $30 - $40 nowadays.
 
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Well, if you went with a 3% fee from 1996 to 2004 you'd roughly get...
25 32.95 1996
25.75 1997
26.5225 1998
27.318175 1999
28.13772025 2000
28.98185186 2001
29.85130741 2002
30.74684664 2003
31.66925203 2004

So no overcharge here according to a 3% inflation rate.
 

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