Wizards Sleep Requirements

[Harmon]

Thanks

That's definitely wrong. Each encounter is evaluated for XP on its own terms. It's not supposed to be dialed up or down depending on the prior preparations of the PCs.

Similarly, you're not supposed to get more XP if you blunder into an encounter with no spells, half-drunk, and 1 hp each (that is, make the encounter harder on yourselves due to particularly poor preparation). That, too, is a common misinterpretation by some DMs.

I copy that. I am not sure as to why he wants the spell casters spell list to be worn down, perhaps he just wants us to not be fully up and ready for the fight. Or maybe he is tired of the villain (there is one that we have not encountered yet, waking creatures into an undead guardian after life) using animate dead to make things harder on us.

To reply to your comment here though, I trust him, I just don’t get the whole of the adventure- usually until it’s over with.

What this adventure is making me consider is the way I see the character and how I play him. Maybe I should do as someone suggested and take a level of Fighter, or Ranger or Rogue or something so he can join the HtH and not stand off to the side and watch the fight while he either conserves his spells or waits for the end of the fight because he’s out of spells (out being relative to having spells that can do something in a fight).

Well, the DM has made it clear that casters aren't supposed to rest, um, pretty much ever, and he's changed the rules enough that it sounds like they can't.

I prefer to think of it in this fashion- I did not recall the rule other then the understanding that the wiz needed 8 hours of sleep (which isn’t quite right either), the GM might well have not recalled the rules either.

Could be several reasons, tho.

- The DM doesn't want you to rest "in between" encounters and to get along with what you have.

I agree with this thought- it seems fairly obvious to me as well.

- The players always use their abilities to the fullest, blasting away at their leisure, with the reassurance, that they can simply rest for more. The DM might have a problem with this, as it makes spellcasters more powerful than they should be.

While the DM should not restrict the players from having their PCs rest, if it is reasonably possible, the players also should use their powers with a bit more care.

There are always more sides than just one.

As always Thanee seems to hit it on the nose.

The GM is quite fair, I think there was a misremembering of the rules, and a lack of desire on the Player’s and GM’s part regarding the recovery of spells.

I just want to feel like I have the right spells at the right time and can use them effectively. So often I find myself waiting for something to blast, wall to place, movement to make because I have to be so careful with my spells, and I have very little in the way of abilities otherwise. Its discouraging to wait all week to play then not be able to do much with regards to helping in the battles- note that I am not saying I don’t do a lot in a fight, more then once a well placed Fireball, Dispel Magic, Hold Person, or some other spell has turned the tides but that is seemingly getting fewer and fewer and further between.

During the encounter with the Bone Devils (not sure they even were) the two most powerful wizards hide inside one of the Bone Devils ice domes to avoid getting into it. One of them used Read Magic to study up on a Teleport scroll so we could grab survivors and return to the outside (we could not transport everyone, so someone had to be left behind or be an object (dead)). Its instances like that, which makes me feel less then adequate with regards to playing a wizard.

Thank you for hearing me out, I know this seems more like a rant or a bi- um, like a complaint then a call for help, I just need somekind of idea I guess as to what I am doing wrong as a Player and I think Thanee hit that on the head.

the players also should use their powers with a bit more care

 

[argo]

Well, the DM has made it clear that casters aren't supposed to rest, um, pretty much ever, and he's changed the rules enough that it sounds like they can't. What you do is as follows:

Cast your spells as normal, budgeting for a few fights if you can. When you run out, pull out a dagger and charge the biggest creature still standing. When you die, roll up another caster. Repeat. See if you can go through a few PCs a night.

Eventually, your DM may come to the understanding that maybe he's being dumb.

Or maybe the DM is just tired of the spellslingers unloading all of their magic up front and then resting after every other fight and expecting to do it all over again. A balanced encounter is supposed to consume 20% of a parties resources (including spells) but if the casters use 40-50% of their daily spells then the encounter suddenly becomes a cakewalk (read: not fun). Forcing the spellcasters to actually budget their daily allocation of spells is important to avoiding that sort of situation as well as introducing a little strategy and tension into the session. There is also one more consideration as well: warrior-types deal small but consistent damage but they can keep going all day as long as they are above 0HP. Spellcasters have the ability to drop a great deal of pain in a very short ammount of time but their endurance is severly limited by their allotment of spells. This dichotomy is deliberate, DnD is a team game and each party member is supposed to depend on the others. If you let the casters dump all their spells into one or two encounters and then rest then you can rather quickly wind up with the opposite scenario where the warriors are sidelined wondering why they bothered to show up with all these fireballs being tossed around.

Note that I'm not saying that this is what things are like in Harmon's game, I don't know what things are like in Harmon's game since I'm not a part of it, I'm just pointing out that there are other ways to veiw the DM's decision.

 

[argo]

I just want to feel like I have the right spells at the right time and can use them effectively. So often I find myself waiting for something to blast, wall to place, movement to make because I have to be so careful with my spells, and I have very little in the way of abilities otherwise. Its discouraging to wait all week to play then not be able to do much with regards to helping in the battles

You are rembering to take the time to scribe lots of scrolls in between adventures right? Wands and potions too right? Those things are essential not only for increasing your spellcasting endurance but also for solving the problem of having the right spell on hand at the right time. Scrolls are great for those obscure spells you arent' always sure you will need and even a pathetic CL1 wand of magic missile will at least give you something to use on those rounds when you don't want to waste a fireball.

There is a reason you get scribe scroll for free at 1st level. Use it!


Hope that helps.

 

[Starglim]

How is it that everyone else (spell casters) requires eight hours of rest and wizards/sorcerers having to have eight of sleep?

Divine spellcasters don't require eight hours (or any) rest provided they pray at the proper time. Everyone else has dealt with wizards and sorcerors - bards are the same as sorcerors.

 

[Harmon]

You are rembering to take the time to scribe lots of scrolls in between adventures right? Wands and potions too right? Those things are essential not only for increasing your spellcasting endurance but also for solving the problem of having the right spell on hand at the right time. Scrolls are great for those obscure spells you arent' always sure you will need and even a pathetic CL1 wand of magic missile will at least give you something to use on those rounds when you don't want to waste a fireball.

There is a reason you get scribe scroll for free at 1st level. Use it!

Ya, problem with that is that the campaign has very little coinage laying about for things such as wands and scrolls- recent times have allowed us to finally make the first of two made wands (only used Craft wands twice now due to a lack of supplies) those wands were CMW for our cleric (the GM allows wand crafting between spell casters- xp expense comes from the person with the Feat).

Scrolls I try to keep up on making when I can, but they are few and far between and generally I collect what our enemies drop, but I have made several hundred xps worth of scrolls in the past.

Coinage is the lacking cause of not making more though.

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Harmon]

Or maybe the DM is just tired of the spellslingers unloading all of their magic up front and then resting after every other fight and expecting to do it all over again.

Ya, I realize that- problem is (as I have stated previoulsy) that I grow tired of sitting back, waiting for something to do, watching everyone doing something. I wait all week to game, to have that role playing experience, to combat the forces of evil and to kill them, then when I get to Saturday or as they say- Game Day, I sit there role playing and watching others combat the forces of evil in the HtH and dealing out damage in one round equal to an average Fireball blast (I roll like my life- average).

Mind you I have fun role playing, but its not 100% of the gaming experience to me. I want to contribute like everyone else in the game- 100% of the time, and I am jealious of them for it.

Thanks I hear what your saying

 

[argo]

Well, maybe you could try talking to the DM about the lack of materials for crafting. If he is worried about making you too powerful tell him what you told us; that you are just looking for a way to contribute on a more consistent basis. Tell him that you aren't gunning for a CL9 wand of fireballs, a simple CL3 wand of magic missile or maybe melf's acid arrow will be sufficent.

Or maybe you should just throw in the towel and make a warrior-type character. Wizards can be fun to play but they are rewarding in a different way than warrior types: you give up the adreniline rush of HTH in exchange for the more intelectual thrill of having exactly the right spell at exactly the right time to save the party's bacon. Personally I play warrior or skill-user types about 80% of the time but that is just me

Hope that helps.

 

[Harmon]

Argo,

Thanks for the idea. I had mentioned it some time back to the GM that I didn't feel like I was contributing in the fights. The very next fight was pretty much tailored for me to make a huge difference with the right spell use, and that was cool, but it didn't last.

I agree about the high skills character- that is generally my thing, rangers or rogue are my flavor too.

Sense 3rd lvl (character creation level) I was considering a level of rogue or ranger, now I am really thinking about it, mainly for the saves, BAB, hp, skills, and feats (wpn prof, etc.), thou I know it will hurt the group because that will delay spell gathering and higher level spells by a level and we seem to need those more then a lame rogue/wiz/ArcOrdr right now.

I have been thinking about this- we have one rogue, a rog1/cleric9, a two bladed dancing melee combatant (can't remember his classes or what book he's from), and a ranger/wiz/ArcArcher, what we need is a tank, someone that will stand and deliver, maybe I will ask the GM after the present campaign if i can make one up, this would give me the contributing factor of the wizard and the fighting satisfaction.

Thank you all for your time and patience, it was very kind of you all.

 

[Thanee]

The very next fight was pretty much tailored for me to make a huge difference with the right spell use, and that was cool, but it didn't last.

Though... the wizard should tailor his spells to the situation, not the situation should tailor itself to the wizard.

I have been thinking about this- we have one rogue, a rog1/cleric9, a two bladed dancing melee combatant (can't remember his classes or what book he's from), ...

dervish?

...and a ranger/wiz/ArcArcher, what we need is a tank, someone that will stand and deliver, maybe I will ask the GM after the present campaign if i can make one up, this would give me the contributing factor of the wizard and the fighting satisfaction.

If your DM allows, maybe you can pick up Leadership to get a "tank" cohort.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Kilroy]

If you're not having fun playing a wizard, and you've pointed this out to the DM, and he still insists that you can't rest so you can contribute to the fight, do something about it.

Spending an entire major fight hiding because you haven't been allowed to recover spells sucks. No good DM would routinely make players do this, because it's not fun. Creating new "you lose XP if you leave the dungeon before 4 fights are up ro reload spells" rules shows DM isn't misunderstanding existing rules, he's creating new ones explicitly to keep you from contributing and having fun.

Fine. Next time that happens, leave the room, go watch TV or read a book. Tell the group to come get you when you're allowed to contribute to the game again. If they still don't get the point, find a new group.