Wizard's Spontaneous use of Metamagic Feats????

[Ferox4]

Many of my players have griped about the Metamagic Feats (as they pertain to Wizards) since 3E's inception. We have discussed the potential of spontaneous use of Metamagic Feats but have not yet attempted to incorporate it into the campaign(s). We have discussed either making it a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + Metamagicked spell level) or possibly a Caster Level Check vs (DC 15 + Metamagicked spell level). Success means you spontaneously Metamagic a spell and burn the appropriate spell slot. Failure means you don't Metamagic the spell and you lose the spell slot.

 

[Ran]

Hi!

As I see, it may be the first step to a knew way of casting spells, it aproaches a little like the EPIC book, it seems a good satrting point for me and a frriend who want to develop a new, point based system that fous on DCs to cast and more freedom on magic... this and Andrew's system, which was posted on a thread recently, can't point which one, sorry, but if he shows by...

HEY ANDREW! if you see this, come and let us talk!!!

 

[Ran]

FOUND IT!!! it is here: Andrew's Freeform Magic

 

[Plane Sailing]

Many of my players have griped about the Metamagic Feats (as they pertain to Wizards) since 3E's inception. We have discussed the potential of spontaneous use of Metamagic Feats but have not yet attempted to incorporate it into the campaign(s). We have discussed either making it a Spellcraft check (DC 20 + Metamagicked spell level) or possibly a Caster Level Check vs (DC 15 + Metamagicked spell level). Success means you spontaneously Metamagic a spell and burn the appropriate spell slot. Failure means you don't Metamagic the spell and you lose the spell slot.

Well, why not just take the one benefit which Sorcerers have and give it away to wizards </ sarcasm >

Seroiusly, why ever bother with sorcerers?

 

[Ferox4]

Yes, that is true. Very few people IMC have played Sorcerers to this point and taking that distinction away from them would not make tham any more appealing. Thanks, F4

 

[Nifft]

How about this:

Compare your Spellcraft against the new level of a Metamagic'd spell thus:

If Spellcraft > (5 + (spell_level ^2)): you can Metamagic the spell WITHOUT using a higher-level slot (or, if a Sorcerer, without using a full-round action). Wizards must still apply Metamagic effects while preparing spells, not when casting them.

Questions:
- Include Int bonus to Spellcraft?
- Include Feat bonuses to Spellcraft?

Using only Spellcraft Ranks (no modifiers), this would give a spellcaster free 1-level Metamagic on 1st level spells at 6th level, free 1-level Magamagic on 2nd level spells at 11th level, and at 16th level they could use one-level Metamagic on 3rd level spells.

-- Nifft

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'll float an idea past you that you might want to look at - especially since wizards are (in a literary fashion) more likely to dabble with things they don't quite understand and have problems with...

You could allow wizards to spontaneously apply metamagic to a spell (and without increasing the spell slot), but attempting to bend a prepared spell in a direction which it wasn't prepared for is risky - there is a 10% chance per metamagic level not applied of the spell backfiring - damaging spells ground zero on the caster, other spells fail and deal 1d6 per spell level (like a backfiring scroll spell).

Thus if the wizard is in a really bad way, knows Quicken, and wants to attempt to quicken that fireball on the fly, there is a 40% chance that it goes off at ground zero instead

I deliberately suggest the use of a flat percentage which isn't modified by anything. Anyone can do it, but if you are 5th level and attempt to silently, quicken a stilled maximised fireball you've got a 90% chance of wiping yourself out...

(I try not to be a naysayer, and to give positive ideas if I can!)

Cheers

 

[RogerBacon]

Hi Plane Sailing. Sounds like we think alike.

Our group does it like this:

At first level every caster can choose to be ‘wild’ ( or insert whatever adjective you like since ‘wild’ has been used to death ). If they take this option then the DC of their spells uses the optional rule in the DMG 1d20 +…. Instead of 10 + …. On a natural ‘1’ their spell fails. In addition they can use meta-magic feats, which they know, without changing the spell level of the spell. The catch is that every level the metamagic feat would add to the spell translates into an increased 10% chance of failure. Thus a quickened fireball would be 3rd level spell with a 5%+40% = 45% chance of failure. It seems balanced because it’s taken as an option about half of the time in our campaign, usually by sorcerers.

Roger Bacon

 

[SylverFlame]

Your problem goes away if you just kill the one round rule for sorcerer metamagic feats. Make them work at no time cost and then you can let wizards spontaniously add them no problem.

The reasons for killing the one round rule make sense if you look at it this way. Let's take a first level spell (doesn't matter which one as long as it takes less than one round to cast), then apply a metamagic feat that would normally (for a wizard) add 2 to the level. We'll assume the caster has access to third level powers. All of a sudden it takes more time to cast than the third level spell it replaces. That doesn't make any sense when you consider that it uses the same amount of "power" as a third level spell.

So killing the rule would let you give wizards spontanious metamagic uses, and sorcerers could actually benefit from Quickened Spell (which would be one of the best meta-feats for a sorcerer).

 

[Ferox4]

Re: Re: Wizard's Spontaneous use of Metamagic Feats????

Well, why not just take the one benefit which Sorcerers have and give it away to wizards </ sarcasm >

Seroiusly, why ever bother with sorcerers?

Before I posted this question I had not taken into consideration Plane Sailing's point. If you want to have a campaign with both Wizards & Sorcerers then you can't allow Wizards the same access to spontaneous use of Metamagic feats because no one will ever bother with the Sorcerer class.

This is not to say that Wizards cannot have access to spontaneous metamagic. I want them to have the potential to do it, but I want some risk to be involved.