Wizards with shields?

[Iku Rex]

A friend pointed this out as an example of a silly change, and I agree that it is.

It's neither silly nor a change. The animated ability never said that the rules for shields don't apply to animated shields.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

It's neither silly nor a change. The animated ability never said that the rules for shields don't apply to animated shields.

yeah silly is being too nice, its moronic.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Me Munchkins is munchkin, and that was an hole in the rules.

I was always boggled by those that let this in. The rules justification was shaky at best. A shield provided an armor bonus that stacked with physical armor. It didn't stack with mage armor, and there was never any mention on whether it would stack with a shields armor bonus. Two large shields should only get you the benefits of one large shield, or a animated shield and a buckler only get you the benefits of the better shield. Same bonuses don't stack they just made a speciifc exceptin for shield with armor, but they enver made the specific exception for shield with shield.

about the only thing you might gain from this is the special armor benefits, but you'd still get those anyways.(I think haven't read magic shield section that closely) a mage with a mithral small shield animated with fortification, and a mithral bucker worn with benefits x,y,z still would get all the side benefits and would be at 0 spell failure chance. So you can still have your animated shields as long as they are mitrhal I suppose, because yeah mitrhal really needed to be used more in 3.5.

 

[The Souljourner]

Animated shields are one of the stupidest and most powergamed items out there.

Why would you ever be sword and board if you could be TWF or using a two handed weapon and an animated shield? it's ridiculous and should never have been made.

Regardless of whether you're amage or fighter, it's overpowered. If it still affected spellcasting, monks, and couldn't be used with TWF or a two handed weapon, then it would be fine.

The sword and board guy gets enough crap as it is, why make him totally useless?

-The Souljourner

 

[LokiDR]

point 2: actually it being a cover bonus reminds me that I don't think it was possible to enchant a tower shield with armor mods. It wasn't really a piece of armor it was a mobile wall and it functioned entiely differently. So I doubt it could ever even be animated, unless they faq'd it.

It IS a shield. Shields can have armor modifications. It doesn't matter that the shield has a different implementation than other shields. Tower shields can be enchanted any way another shield can. But that doesn't mean they will work the same way. A bonus on a shield may not increase the bonus from cover but that doesn't say anything about other bonuses. Yes, you can animate a tower shield.

point 3: Actually neither were holes in the rules. Allowing wiz/sor to use some armor in a limited fashion isn't a hole in the rules, heck with the advent of the eldrich knight this even is more fitting than before. Mage types can and should use armor on occasion. It wasn't and isn't unbalanced for them to get access to shields so no hole existed or exists now. The only problem is now there is less versatility.

Neither were items expressely stated in the rules. Every published armor had some amount of ASF, including the application of mirthral to armor that was published, mirthral shirt. So, yes, I can call them holes since it isn't obvious that they were intended.

Eldrich knight has no ability to cast spells in armor, as the spellsword did. So, the boring PrC isn't intended to wear armor.

Mages can use armor if they want suffer from ASF. That always has been the tradeoff. Elminating that tradoff empowers two the most powerfull classes in the game even more. It is overpowered when every mage should have mirthral bucklers. It is a no-brainer, and that implies broken.

 

[Staffan]

As for the reduction of wizard ACs in 3.5... that's good. Wizards are supposed to be vulnerable - that's why they have sucky hit points and can't wear armor. When wizards start having more AC than the fighter tanks, something is wrong.

 

[LokiDR]

I was always boggled by those that let this in. The rules justification was shaky at best. A shield provided an armor bonus that stacked with physical armor. It didn't stack with mage armor, and there was never any mention on whether it would stack with a shields armor bonus. Two large shields should only get you the benefits of one large shield, or a animated shield and a buckler only get you the benefits of the better shield. Same bonuses don't stack they just made a speciifc exceptin for shield with armor, but they enver made the specific exception for shield with shield.

No, the justification for animated tower shield and mirthral bucker was always clear and valid. Tower shields provided cover, buckler provided armor, and bracers/mage armor provided armor. So you get cover and special abilities from the tower shield, special abilites from the buckler, and armor from the bracers/spell. You lose the +2 from the buckler and that is about it.

Why do you keep talking about multiple normal shields? It was the tower shield and mirthral bucklers that don't have ASF that are cheesy.

about the only thing you might gain from this is the special armor benefits, but you'd still get those anyways.(I think haven't read magic shield section that closely) a mage with a mithral small shield animated with fortification, and a mithral bucker worn with benefits x,y,z still would get all the side benefits and would be at 0 spell failure chance. So you can still have your animated shields as long as they are mitrhal I suppose, because yeah mitrhal really needed to be used more in 3.5.

Unless Mirthral has been changed, the only shield that has 0 ASF when made of mirthral is the buckler. A small shield would still have that problem. So, the towershield/buckler doesn't work as you would have huge ASF. You could wear two mirthral bucklers and animate a third, but that wouldn't give you much gain, nothing like the +7 constant cover fromt the tower shield.