Woo-hoo! Heroes of Horror preview!!

[Saeviomagy]

I have to say this.

I love the concept of the archivist. A bookish cleric.

I HATE the implementation. I think the bonus abilities of the class would have been better off as general "anyone with ranks in appropriate knowledges gets these". Making them a class ability effectively bars this approach.

And, as to power, just look at what some others have said - the archivist gets access to an awful lot of lower-level-than-normal spells (lesser restoration as a 1st level for instance) and wizard spells.

Hell, if you actually use the rules, then the archivist can scribe any spell in the game into his book as long as it's possible to make a scroll out of it.

So, that's it for the archivist. Great concept, terrible class (especially once you start looking at the possibility of the cleric-loremaster).

 

[Mouseferatu]

I've yet to see any argument convince me that it's actually broken. A lot of people see the "any divine spell" detail and have a knee-jerk reaction, but consider the following:

The archivist only automatically gets spells from the cleric list. He has to find or purchase scrolls or scribed versions of spells from any other divine class. That means, assuming book-value leve of treasure, the more broad his range of spells, the less other equipment and magic he's going to have. Scribing spells is expensive.

The archivist cannot draw from the arcane list, and there are a lot of potent spells that simply do not appear on any divine list. Even if you do allow domain spells, there's a select number of those. (And the whole "scribing an arcane spell as a divine spell by including a cleric in the process is just silly. I don't really care if the rules technically allow it, there's no way it's anything but an accidental oversight.)

The archivist has bad BAB, lower hit points than a cleric, worse armor proficiency than a cleric, and cannot spontaneously cure. He's absolutely never going to be replacing the cleric as the "front-line caster." That makes a lot of the cleric and paladin buffing/weapon-related spells less useful to him. He's less versatile that the cleric, because clerics can prepare any spell from their list, and it's unlikely the archivist will have that many spells in his book. And because he doesn't have access to many arcane spells, he's also never going to replace the sorcerer/wizard as the artillery platform.

No turn undead, and therefore no divine feats.

No domain abilities.

Fewer spells per day than clerics.

I just don't see how it's unbalanced, honestly.

 

[Mouseferatu]

BTW, a reminder for those who came in late...

I didn't write the archivist. I can't speak for what C.A., James, or the development team intended. The above is my opinion based on the preview of the class on the WotC web site; I haven't seen anything more about the class than anyone else.

 

[Joël of the FoS]

Mmm... Why do you all use future tense about this book when I have it in hand

It is released today Friday but I got it a day before thanks to my friends at the Valet.

Using my Ravenloft lenses: I just had time to browse through it, and I really liked what I saw. It is perhaps a fine companion to the RL DM guide (at least the first chapters). There are plenty of ideas to design an horror oriented campaign, and it is fun to see Ravenloft was definetively an influence as far as I can see ("taint" is similar in essence to path of corruptions, Nightmares, etc.)

And I found a reference to Ravenloft. Not by name, but a mention of a "demiplane that entraps all who enters within an impassable border of mist" is close enough I think

Removing these Ravenloft lenses: do not believe it is made exclusively with Ravenloft in mind, au contraire. From what I saw so far, it is a good tool to help DMs put more horror and terror into the campaign.

Joël

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

Archivist

Everytime a new class gets introduced, someone thinks it's imbalanced. People ranted for months about the Mystic Theurge. Even people like Sean Reynolds had a problem with it. But who, having seen one in play, thinks it's imbalanced today?

The Archivist will be the same.

I do agree with the idea that some of the Archvist's class abilities should be rolled into the knowledge skills, though. It seems odd that a wizard with +25 Knowldege: Planes can't help his companions fight demons better, while the archivist can.

Ken

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

I know there's probably a thread about the art preview, but I couldn't find it. But did anyone else find the avatar of Cas just... silly? I mean c'mon... Bullwinkle with knee spikes!

 

[HalWhitewyrm]

I haven't been really interested in the latests books from WotC, though Heroes of Horror had me curious, even before I knew Ari was one of the writers. I had decided to give it a look and probably pick it up, and that was before seeing this image in the art gallery Wizards just posted:

I have no idea what the context is, but the pregnant character (cleric?) really calls my attention. First, it's the first time I see Wizards acknowledging such facts of life (and if there is a previous case, please let me know), and second, on a more personal level, it reminds me of my Living Greyhawk character, a female barbarian in the Principality of Ulek, whom I played pregnant for all of Year 1.

I'll definitely check it out and see what the book has to offer to my game. I also have Darkness & Dread, and I want to see how they complement/overlap.

 

[jaerdaph]

This makes baby Orcus cry.

 

[Joël of the FoS]

Horror gaming is based on having more "mature" and serious gamers. One of the fun part of it also means you have the opportunity to introduce more mature themes in your campaign than regular fantasy campaigns.

Imagine this cleric found she is pregnant but swears nothing happens to make he in that condition? And since then, once in a while she sees ghosts following her around ...

Joël

 

[Sleepy Voiced]

Cas

Oops, there I go shooting my mouth off again. So, if it isn't a closely guarded secret, what does tha C.A. stand for? Or should I keep mentally calling him Clark Ashton Suleiman whenever I see his byline

Anyway, I got this last night. Great work Ari and Co.! From what I have read so far this may be one of the best D&D books I have picked up in a long time. And the art is pretty freakin' fantastic to boot!