World Building details

[Luna_Silvertear]

Hello Forum! I think I'll just cut to the chase. Everyone knows how seasons and rotation of the earth works. ( if not, you've been living under a rock. XD) My world, called Ilphyria, is flat and has two moons. I've already decided that it has eight seasons (running through the four seasons of our world twice e.g.: sp,su,fa,wt->sp,su,fa,wt) and that a year in Ilphyria is 720 days. How can I accomplish this WITHOUT having to say "because I'. the GM and I say so". I will be running this for a VERY experienced group of gamers, and they tend to ask questions like "why is this like this?" or "How does that work?" pretaining to the world they're characters are in. It helps them get a feel for it. Can you help me?

 

[Rampant]

Well the first issue is the whole running through the cycle twice bit.

Either it's an artificial construction in order to keep the day counts in line i.e. 721 days in a year, but the cycle of seasons repeats every 360.5 days so to keep from screwing the schedule they just set the calendar to run through two cycles so the new year always starts at the same time of day roughly.

Or the cycle is lopsided in some manner, maybe the second run through the year is accelerated or deccelerated compared to the first, maybe one or both of the moons blocks some of the sunlight during one of the cycles so there's a warm time and a cold time.

If you define the year as the time it takes for the plane to complete one circuit around the sun you could give it a skewed orbit. Instead of the ellipse's base being centered around the sun the plane goes around in a narrower where twice a year it passes close by and then gets slung out a bit on both ends. So instead of an egg shaped rotation imagine the sun at the center of a circle but then pull two opposite points of the circle out away form the sun and let the areas not being pulled out pull closer to the star.

like this but with the sun in the middle
http://en.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=File:Red_oval.svg&filetimestamp=20080614143846

is that making any sense?

 

[paradox42]

If it's flat, presumably like a pancake or wide sheet of "ground," but it's in a universe where orbits actually happen more or less as they do in ours, then clearly it's an artificial construct. No natural object the size of a planet can form a flat shape, gravity causes them to collapse into a sphere. Assuming this is the case, then you already have a major deus ex machina in your world's backstory, and can explain the seasons however you like- perhaps elemental gates open up at different times of the year, and the predominant magical energy from the gates causes the seasons.

If your world somehow is not a created thing, with that flat shape, then clearly the laws of physics are very different in your world's universe, and that means orbits and celestial mechanics work differently. Which, again, gives you an out for explaining any apparent anomalies.

Knowing why the world is flat (and precisely how it's shaped) might help us come up with a reason to explain the seasons, in other words.

 

[GlassEye]

This can all be tied to a mythological cosmology instead of a scientific one. In ancient Greek myth it isn't axial tilt that creates seasons but whether Persephone is living in the underworld or not. That's what you need here: the story of how your world came to be.

 

[Luna_Silvertear]

Thank you all for your wonderful suggestions! I appreciate all your help. I've (hopefully) attached my campaign guide in its incomplete form to this post. I ask that you please leaf through it. Now, assuming you have done so, Ilphyria is NOT artifically constructed. I appreciate the example with the oval orbit, however...how could I explain this to an idiot...as in simplify it. I have an annoying habit of going into looooooong complicated explainations. the orbit and saeason should be scientifically based due to the flavor of the world and campaign. steam is ancient technology and there is a goddess of science, but to reveal anymore would be spoiling the fun of it in case i decide to run an IRC.

If you define the year as the time it takes for the plane to complete one circuit around the sun you could give it a skewed orbit. Instead of the ellipse's base being centered around the sun the plane goes around in a narrower where twice a year it passes close by and then gets slung out a bit on both ends. So instead of an egg shaped rotation imagine the sun at the center of a circle but then pull two opposite points of the circle out away form the sun and let the areas not being pulled out pull closer to the star.

Ah...i forgot to mention that the sun and moons rotate around Ilphyria.

 

[Rampant]

Revolve the word you want is revolve or orbit, rotating is that thing where you spin on your own axis.

Look either your physics are different (in which case my ability to help is limited) or the big body is the one being orbited around.

As for how to explain the odd orbit to an idiot? Draw a picture and label segments of the arc.

 

[Luna_Silvertear]

Ilphyria is the large body. Yes, physics are a bit different, but only pretaining to the orbit of the sun, moons, and the shape of the world, but those simple things play largly into defining the world itself. for instance: In Terry Prachett's Discworld series (which I recommend everyone everywhere forever read) the sun revolves around the disc while it spins. Should Ilphyria spin, and if so, the outer edges of Ilphyria will be tropical and the center will be coldest due to the spin and position of the sun. What would you recommend?

I suck at explaining. Please forgive me.

 

[Rampant]

The plane is bigger than its sun?
Bigger how?
More surface area?
More mass?
larger radius?

 

[Luna_Silvertear]

The plane is bigger than its sun?
Bigger how?
More surface area?
More mass?
larger radius?

Yes to all three. The sun is about 1/3 the size of Ilphyria. The moons Sylmarys and Te'shala are 1/5 and 1/6 the size of Ilphyria respectively.

 

[paradox42]

If a year consists of 8 seasons, but it's just two cycles of the usual four that we have on Earth, then that begs the question: why is a year two cycles of seasons instead of just one?

The original purpose of measuring a year, on Earth, was specifically to measure the seasons so as to know when to plant crops. Why would people on your world decide that two cycles was a year, instead of one? It means they have two times to plant, half a year apart, rather than one time to plant, each year.

So, is there something different about your seasons, the second time through? Why is it significant enough that the ordinary Commoners would mark the second cycle of seasons as different from the first, and call the whole thing of eight "one year" instead of just paying attention to when the planting season is like people did on Earth?