World's Largest Dungeon in actual play [Spoilers!]

[Qwillion]

"The dungeon was designed with the limitations of using the SRD only."

But ignored the SRD when it came to awarding xp.

"You have allowed your party to have access to abilities that are non in the SRD. This allows your PCs to have some pretty focused powers because they have more options that their opponents do not."

I am not having a problem with the encounters being too easy, I have a concern that FAIR xp awarded for an encounter will out pace the adventure. I have always expressed this opinion and that I found it offensive that the editors did not make the designers follow the rules for both XP and treasure.

"This makes the combats that much easier for the party, possibly to the point where their levels could be considered higher than what they actually are."

At the appropraite level ythey are have just a tough time as everyone else (I have had one player's character die from a shadow's strength drain).

"power-down the XP,"
Yes of course this is what I HAVE to do in order to play the game. My point was I SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD TO DO THIS IF WLD WAS WRITTEN AND DESIGNENED WITHOUT THIS FLAW. Jim Pinto has stated that this is so, the flaw exists and a # of fixes have been offered. I Followed this EL guideline, I still have a party that is 6th level and not even halfway through region E.


" some options that they wouldn't have within the SRD."
I do I make liberal use of the Advanced Beastiary, the Deluxe book of templates and the Beast builder.


"I know it's not the kind of answer you were hoping for, but pre-made modules rarely can stand up to the cleverness and variety of players."

I would tend to agree, my main issue is that by not following and using the rules that I am playing by (the rules the WLD was supposed to be designed for.) the designer's and editors created more work for me, something that say Shackeled city or Banewarrens did not.


"They dropped the campaign shortly after that, because nothing challenged them."
while I can agree on the having options the designer could not account but I think the problem is that I can make it challenging by adding templates, upping stats and encoutner conditions.


Now I am having to go into the book and calculate XP with encounters so that no more than 3 and a half levels will be gained in the region even if you clear it. I handle this by awarding xp straight out per character.

here is the reall issue though assuming a region has 100 encounters (I am rounding of easy math here) and no more than 25,000xp should be awarded in this region that mens if you awarding xp per encounter tha no more than 250 xp should be awarded per encounter per character on average.

I hope you can see the problem

This is quick and a bad example but I will put up more later.

 

[pheaver]

The way I've been doing XP is by EL, like it was suggested. I have a larger party, but the XP was still a little high. Then I told the PCs that if they were higher than the level range for an area, then I would cut their XP gains in half. So once they hit level 4, they got half as much XP in Region A. I call it the "finish the plot in that region and move on already" rule.

So far, it's worked well, and it's simple to do. The party just finished E, and is a mix of 7th and 6th levels. There's still encounters left in the region, but the plot of the celestial garrison is done, and the PCs aren't interested in "mopping up" since the XP rewards will be low.

Paul

 

[Hussar]

Pheaver brings up a good point. The purpose of the adventure in the WLD is not to search and destroy every critter. The purpose that should drive every group is escape. Yes, they get entangled in side plots throughout the adventure, but, ultimately, escape is the driving motivation. If your groups are staying in a region to make sure they've found every secret door and killed every mook, they aren't moving forward to escape.

Me, I'd start punishing groups that did that. If the PC's are actively depopulating areas, start having organized resistence crop up. Word of their power starts to spread and suddenly every chokepoint is an ambush as groups stop fighting eachother and gang up on the offending PC's. If you look at each map and divide it roughly into quarters, you'll see that there are only a couple of passages between each quarter. Nice, sweet little chokepoints that the inhabitants of the WLD KNOW the party has to pass through. Until the party starts to pick up the pace, beat them like a drum. Start actively hunting the party with the bad guys. Either the party gets croaked, or they smarten up and get in gear.

 

[Qwillion]

"The way I've been doing XP is by EL, like it was suggested. I have a larger party, but the XP was still a little high. Then I told the PCs that if they were higher than the level range for an area, then I would cut their XP gains in half. So once they hit level 4, they got half as much XP in Region A. I call it the "finish the plot in that region and move on already" rule.

So far, it's worked well, and it's simple to do. The party just finished E, and is a mix of 7th and 6th levels. There's still encounters left in the region, but the plot of the celestial garrison is done, and the PCs aren't interested in "mopping up" since the XP rewards will be low."

Paul that is great I like that system and it is easily explainable to my players so that they can understand that it is thier choice to stay in the region or not.

Thnaks Paul this was a tremendous help.

 

[Traevanon]

Introducing

Hello! Nice to see that there are still folks out there running the WLD.

I have a year long campaign still going now, we once had 12+ players but we are now down to around sevenish.

Currently the group has just entered the Pyrefaust (Map J).

Roster
1) Human Paladin 11th of Tyr / Charge on mount
2) Drow Paladin 11th / Defensive Fighting
3) Dwarf Fighter 11th / Hold the Line
4) Human Master Thrower, Swashbuckler 11th / 5 Daggers, all trip attacks
5) Human Thaumaturgist 11th of Hieroneous / Summon or Incapacitation spells (stun)
6) Human Druid 10th, Bard 1st / Heal others
7) Goblin Mystic Theurge 12th of Zeus / Sudden Widened Fireball (substituion lightning) or incapacitation spells (tasha's and the like)

The theme of my version of the WLD is that the dungeon is the place people go to when Imprisonment is cast upon them. The prison is growing weaker however and it may be possible to escape on your own.

Summary

Over some 40 sessions the characters nearly cleared Map A before experiencing the fireball traps in the painting rooms in Map E's eastern entrance. This caused them to head toward Map B. After encountering the Goblins there and beating the tribe into surrender the party once again returned to Map E.

Several near deaths occurred (I keep a roster of all deaths) against the Shadows and eventually the party (which had at the time many more evil members) encountered the Celestial Garrison and were captured. The celestial's leader, a somewhat more merciful lady than the one who captured them promptly Mark of Justiced the entire party and banished them to Map I (Halls of Flesh).

A bit low level for Map I and now without their item merchant (Boyikt the Kobold from Map A was turned into an impromptu store), the party proceeded carefully, but soon encountered a new base of operations amongst the Drow and Driders. Working outward from there they eventually were able to discover Mahir's spellbook and complete the Ritual of Undoing, destroying Anguish and Madness.

This was two sessions ago.

Last session the party began to search for their old friend Boyikt who has been captured and brought deeper into the dungeon, forced to construct magic items for his demonic captors. All they have to go on is a long string of Message Spells of Boyikt's memorized path as he was led away blindfolded. The best clue they had was that "Hot Bridge" was among the list and was nearly the only landmark that could prevent them from beginning all the way back at Map A.

Fortune smiled upon them, they chose to take the middle exit on the east side of Map I, and after about 100 feet of hallway were practically standing in front of the "Hot Bridge".

And then the Fire Giants began to toss rocks at them.

After killing three seperate encounters of Fire Giants they camped for the night back in region I, the next session will start with them probably being forced to negotiate with the Fire Giant Queen Grehennox after she finds the dead giants.

So, I'll go over the back posts in this thread over the next couple days and hopefully hear back on how your own campaigns are going.

 

[jim pinto]

Pheaver brings up a good point. The purpose of the adventure in the WLD is not to search and destroy every critter. The purpose that should drive every group is escape. Yes, they get entangled in side plots throughout the adventure, but, ultimately, escape is the driving motivation. If your groups are staying in a region to make sure they've found every secret door and killed every mook, they aren't moving forward to escape.

Me, I'd start punishing groups that did that. If the PC's are actively depopulating areas, start having organized resistence crop up. Word of their power starts to spread and suddenly every chokepoint is an ambush as groups stop fighting eachother and gang up on the offending PC's. If you look at each map and divide it roughly into quarters, you'll see that there are only a couple of passages between each quarter. Nice, sweet little chokepoints that the inhabitants of the WLD KNOW the party has to pass through. Until the party starts to pick up the pace, beat them like a drum. Start actively hunting the party with the bad guys. Either the party gets croaked, or they smarten up and get in gear.

wow. hussar, this is an amazing observation. not a lot of people caught this and its one of the main reasons i laugh at people who bitch about the XP situation. we wrote 1600+ encounters.

1,600!!!!

we cannot and should not as writers and designers be held accountable for what you do with those encounters.

if you make the PCs run through ALL of them and hand out candy XP for each room, you deserve what you get.

every DM is going to run this thing differently and the GUIDELINES at the beginning of the book are there to help you have more fun with the product.

at the end of the day, you get encounters for 6 cents each!

that's what you're buying. that and a story that links them together.

i think the XP topic has been talked to death on this thread, personally.

i thought it out well in advance. i wrote 3 different guidelines on how to handle it in the book. and your post is the first to really grok what i was saying.

thank you.

(oh... and traevenon... great idea with the imprisionment spell. i like what you've done with the dungeon).

peace

 

[Hussar]

*Gets all warm and fuzzy*

Since Traevanon posted an update on his game, I guess it might be time to do one for mine.

My backstory is a little different. I envisioned the Dungeon as a great game between various dieties and other Unspeakable Beings (tm) who are playing in a contest where the playing pieces have know idea what each player's goals are. The PC's are the playing pieces of a couple of minor dieties of luck named Oponn (blatant steal from Stephen Erikson). I'm seeing Oponn's goal as escape from the Dungeon and to cause as much havoc as possible in the process. Enter the PC's.

So far, they've (finally) just about wrapped up region A. They still have to throw down with Longtail in the next session, but, considering the party of seven PC's is all 3rd and 2nd level, it's a pretty forgone conclusion. It will be interesting to see what way they head afterwards. I added an additional little quest into Region A. I placed a Simurg from Dragon 335 in the prison with the teleporter, chained to the wall. They had to retrieve the red gem from the broken trap room and use it to free the angel. However, I also added a Crypt Thing protecting the red gem. After the party got split into two groups, teleported into the former Kobold's lair and into the Forgotten Rooms, they spent two or three sessions figuring out where the heck they were and then finding eachother again. It was really fun, but, something that should be done sparingly. They went back, killed the Crypt Thing (in a really spectacular battle too) and then freed the Simurg. The Simurg has given them a fair bit of information and will remain in Region A as an advisor and guardian.

 

[JediSoth]

My group didn't finish map I. They fought Madness once, but fled when it was regenerated an hour later. And where did they eventually flee, you ask? Map J. At an average party level of about 8. So far, they've only fought the Flamebrothers and the Salamanders, so they've been able to hold their own. But one of them almost got pureed by a fire giant boulder while they were climbing on the ziggurat trying to figure out how to open it.

They've gotten hints that there's something to dread up on the plateau, and normally if I hint that something big and bad is somewhere, they cannot resist trying to find it. It'll be fun when their little group encounters that....well, if you haven't got that far, I'm not going to ruin the surprise.

JediSoth

 

[Traevanon]

Reading back through I found that there was a mixup in Region A in my game and Ikriit in my game is actually Boyikt in the book, sorry for the confusion. So my party is off looking for Boyikt, as you understand it. I will edit my previous post to reflect the proper name.

I made sure that there were NPCs capable and willing to sell custom magic items and buy tradable goods in every region so far actually, though the PC assassin killed the Hobgoblin Hammerfist (unaware that he was their next source of goods) from Region B during a break in the negotiations for the Goblin tribe's surrender. They did however claim his magic hammer and anvil (my own addition) as terms of the surrender for Boyikt, making Boyikt capable of creating +1 items.

Region E's crafters were the celestials, who dont actually make many items but have a decent store of them. The PCs didnt get to use it however, since they were evil.

Region I the Drow and Drider have access to fewer weapons and armor but more spells, scrolls and potions. Which the party's Theurge has enjoyed.

 

[rvalle]

WLD Exp

I'm taking the lazy way and just telling them to level up at certain points. They started at 2nd level. When they started to hit the middle of Region A I had them bump up to 3rd where they will stay until they move out of the region.

I'm also having everyone level up as a group regardless of how much they have actually played. I have some people that can only make an occational game. I don't want to have to deal with a 3rd level guy trying to hang with 7th level party members.

Seems to be working so far but we'll see as time goes on.

rv