Worlds of Design: “Old School” in RPGs and other Games – Part 1 Failure and Story

For me, the difference between Old School and anything else is not in the rules, but in attitude. Is failure, even losing, possible, or is it not? Is it a game, or is it a storytelling session?

For me, the difference between Old School and anything else is not in the rules, but in attitude. Is failure, even losing, possible, or is it not? Is it a game, or is it a storytelling session?


Notice it’s “storytelling”, not storymaking. Every RPG involves a story, the question is, who creates the story, the GM or the players?

Inevitably, 40-some installments into this column, “Old School” would come up.

. . . role-playing games do not have plots. They have situations at the campaign, adventure, and encounter level which the players are free to interact with however they wish– as long as they accept the consequences!” - Jeffro Johnson (author of the book Appendix N)​

This will be in three (oversized) parts, because understanding of this topic is fundamental to discourse about what some of us (at least) call RPGs, and there’s too much for one or two columns (I tried). I think of a Quora question that asked what a GM can do when a player’s character does something insane or ludicrously inappropriate during a game. The answers varied widely depending on the goals of the answerer. The Old School answer is, “let the character suffer the consequences of the action”; but for those on the New School side, it was a much more complex problem, as the character’s actions would make it hard if not impossible for the GM to tell the story he had devised for the adventure.

Likely everyone reading this has seen and perhaps discussed the term “Old School” in connection with RPGs. When I started to reconnect with RPG fandom a few years ago, I wasn’t sure what “Old School” meant. There seem to be many definitions, but I now see the fundamental divide as not about rules. Rather, it’s about the attitude of the GM, and of the players, toward losing and failure. That’s at the root of Jeffro’s rant, though he puts it in terms of plot and story, which are closely related.

As I said, this is in three parts. The second will talk about rules, GMing, and pacing, and about non-RPGs reflecting the two schools. The third part will talk about differences in actual gameplay.

I’m not going to be “one true way” the way Jeffro is (“thieves must have d4 hit dice” is one of his rants). I write about RPGs as games, not as story-telling aids or playgrounds, but I am describing, not prescribing even as I obviously prefer the Old School. Let’s proceed.

If it’s a game (Old School (OS)), there’s a significant chance you can lose, you can fail. If it’s a story session, with no chance you can lose, it’s something else. This is like a co-operative board game that you cannot lose: why bother to play?

In terms of story, in OS the players write their own story, with the benefit of the GM’s assistance. The GM sets up a situation and lets the players get on with it. (This is sometimes called [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]"[/FONT][/FONT]sandbox[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]"[/FONT][/FONT] in video games, though video games tend to impose an overall story as a limitation of using computer programming instead of a human GM.) The other extreme is when the GM tells the players a story through the game. (In video games this is called a linear game, where the story always ends up the same way.)

If a GM is Old School and runs the same adventure for several different groups, the results will probably vary wildly. If the GM is at the other extreme, the overall shape of the adventure will be the same each time, with variance only in the details.

Old School adventures are usually highly co-operative, because the characters will DIE if they don’t cooperate. New School doesn’t require cooperation, you’re going to survive anyway.

Not surprisingly, as the hobby has grown, the proportion of wargamers (now a small hobby) has decreased drastically. Many players are not even hobby gamers, that is, they’re not quite “gamers” in the old sense because the only game they play is their RPG(s). Many people want their games to be stories, so the shift from Old School to something else is not surprising.

D&D 5e bears the marks of the newer playing methods, as there’s lots of healing as well as the ridiculous cleric spell revivify for mere fifth level clerics.

There are all kinds of shades of the two extremes, obviously. And all kinds of ways of running RPGs. Next time, I’ll talk about more differences between Old School and newer ways of playing such as Rules and Pacing, and compare with non-RPGs.

This article was contributed by Lewis Pulsipher (lewpuls) as part of EN World's Columnist (ENWC) program. You can follow Lew on his web site and his Udemy course landing page. If you enjoy the daily news and articles from EN World, please consider contributing to our Patreon!
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio
This still grossly misrepresents the mechanics. You're hiding the fact that your chosen example (death of brother) would only fit if that event was a mild complication instead of a critical event and then switching back to the assumption it's a critical event to show how badly this mechanics works.
I wasn't trying to imply anything about the severity of the event. Maybe it was a bad example. I'll chalk it up to standard forum miscommunication.

My point was just that the rules incentivize the player having bad things happen to their character, which is a stark contrast to anything you would ever see in an OS game.

Edit: For that matter, it's somewhat interesting that anyone would be caught up on the severity (or emotional impact) of the event in the first place, since that's another thing that would be entirely irrelevant in an OS game. In an OS game, someone dies when they take damage that exceeds their HP, and who they're related to is not a factor in that.
 
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Shasarak

Banned
Banned
Full disclosure: I don't even play FATE and I know this from a reading of the rules. It's not hard unless you're trying to take the wrong impression.

My guess is that it is in comparison to DnD where it is often better for you to play an Orphan with no brothers or sisters to prevent the DM from using your family to screw you over.
 

My guess is that it is in comparison to DnD where it is often better for you to play an Orphan with no brothers or sisters to prevent the DM from using your family to screw you over.
I've said it before, but there are some absolutely terrible GMs out there, and the worst among them will try to protagonize your character, as though they were a fictional character in some mere story.

If you can't trust your GM to treat your character like a real person, then playing an orphan with no ties to the world will give you some measure of protection.
 

Shasarak

Banned
Banned
I've said it before, but there are some absolutely terrible GMs out there, and the worst among them will try to protagonize your character, as though they were a fictional character in some mere story.

If you can't trust your GM to treat your character like a real person, then playing an orphan with no ties to the world will give you some measure of protection.

To be fair, if I could trade in my characters fictional brother or sister to get a +2 to a roll then I would probably have as many as I could.

Imagine if you could borrow money off them before they were killed? ;)
 

Arilyn

Hero
I've said it before, but there are some absolutely terrible GMs out there, and the worst among them will try to protagonize your character, as though they were a fictional character in some mere story.

If you can't trust your GM to treat your character like a real person, then playing an orphan with no ties to the world will give you some measure of protection.

Ummm, all rpg characters are fictional. And since game mechanics cannot emulate real life, and have to abstract a lot, it makes sense to me that following rules of drama could be a logical, and for many players a satisfying addition to gaming philosophy.

There are many many happy groups with gms protagonizing characters, so surely, it cannot possibly be a huge gaming sin.

And how is family members getting killed all over the place becoming a new school thing, so playing an orphan needs to be good advice?:) This has nothing to do with whether characters are treated as real people or fictional ones, especially since the whole thing began with false Fate example.
 

Ummm, all rpg characters are fictional.
From the perspective of the real world, anyone living in a game world is fictional. But from the perspective of the game world, everyone living there is a real person, and deserves to be treated as such. If the GM treats a character as fictional, by contriving dramatic incidents to occur around them, then that GM is meta-gaming, which is bad. I'm not going to explain why meta-gaming is bad, as far as OS games are concerned; you should know this by now.

Some people might have fun with meta-gaming, but those people don't understand the appeal of role-playing as a real person, rather than as a story character.
 

Jhaelen

First Post
Some people might have fun with meta-gaming, but those people don't understand the appeal of role-playing as a real person, rather than as a story character.
Keep preaching dude! I'm glad to see some things never change. A Happy New Year to you and everyone on ENWorld!
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
From the perspective of the real world, anyone living in a game world is fictional. But from the perspective of the game world, everyone living there is a real person, and deserves to be treated as such. If the GM treats a character as fictional, by contriving dramatic incidents to occur around them, then that GM is meta-gaming, which is bad. I'm not going to explain why meta-gaming is bad, as far as OS games are concerned; you should know this by now.

Some people might have fun with meta-gaming, but those people don't understand the appeal of role-playing as a real person, rather than as a story character.

Ah, one true wayism. Everyone else must just be missing it.

For example, the traits exploited by FATE mechanics are part of the character -- they are definitional for that character. Real persons often have traits that cause them woe, and that mechanic is used to pull this real person roleplaying out. You skip this part of real person roleplaying by preferring perfect persons with no flaws except those brought by the player. All of the flaws in your real person roleplay are the player's flaws passed through the pawn of the character. Surely, you can see this?
 

From the perspective of the real world, anyone living in a game world is fictional. But from the perspective of the game world, everyone living there is a real person, and deserves to be treated as such. If the GM treats a character as fictional, by contriving dramatic incidents to occur around them, then that GM is meta-gaming, which is bad. I'm not going to explain why meta-gaming is bad, as far as OS games are concerned; you should know this by now.

Some people might have fun with meta-gaming, but those people don't understand the appeal of role-playing as a real person, rather than as a story character.

I don't feel like a DM 'contriving drama' has anything to do with meta-gaming. There are many types of DM's, and everyone runs their campaigns their own way. Some DM's may feel obligated to involve the pc's backstory into the plot of the campaign, and clearly some DM's will be better at that than others. So when a DM decides that a pc's family becomes part of some contrived drama, that may just be a sign of limited imagination and/or poor storytelling skills, rather than a case of meta-gaming. And what of all the cases where the DM comes up with a cool drama involving the pc's family? Is that meta-gaming too? This is why I think this has nothing to do with meta-gaming at all.

As DM's we all know (generally speaking) that the pc's are the main characters of the story. What we do with them, is where we may differ.
 

Hussar

Legend
Well this should be fun. Yet more "Oh, noes, meta gaming is the worst". I gotta give credit where credit is due for sticking to your guns [MENTION=6703052]SA[/MENTION]elorn. That is bloody impressive to keep hammering the same drum and flogging that poor horse for YEARS and not have a single person ever actually agree with your point. :D

I stand in awe.
 

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