Worlds of Design: “Old School” in RPGs and other Games – Part 1 Failure and Story

For me, the difference between Old School and anything else is not in the rules, but in attitude. Is failure, even losing, possible, or is it not? Is it a game, or is it a storytelling session?

For me, the difference between Old School and anything else is not in the rules, but in attitude. Is failure, even losing, possible, or is it not? Is it a game, or is it a storytelling session?


Notice it’s “storytelling”, not storymaking. Every RPG involves a story, the question is, who creates the story, the GM or the players?

Inevitably, 40-some installments into this column, “Old School” would come up.

. . . role-playing games do not have plots. They have situations at the campaign, adventure, and encounter level which the players are free to interact with however they wish– as long as they accept the consequences!” - Jeffro Johnson (author of the book Appendix N)​

This will be in three (oversized) parts, because understanding of this topic is fundamental to discourse about what some of us (at least) call RPGs, and there’s too much for one or two columns (I tried). I think of a Quora question that asked what a GM can do when a player’s character does something insane or ludicrously inappropriate during a game. The answers varied widely depending on the goals of the answerer. The Old School answer is, “let the character suffer the consequences of the action”; but for those on the New School side, it was a much more complex problem, as the character’s actions would make it hard if not impossible for the GM to tell the story he had devised for the adventure.

Likely everyone reading this has seen and perhaps discussed the term “Old School” in connection with RPGs. When I started to reconnect with RPG fandom a few years ago, I wasn’t sure what “Old School” meant. There seem to be many definitions, but I now see the fundamental divide as not about rules. Rather, it’s about the attitude of the GM, and of the players, toward losing and failure. That’s at the root of Jeffro’s rant, though he puts it in terms of plot and story, which are closely related.

As I said, this is in three parts. The second will talk about rules, GMing, and pacing, and about non-RPGs reflecting the two schools. The third part will talk about differences in actual gameplay.

I’m not going to be “one true way” the way Jeffro is (“thieves must have d4 hit dice” is one of his rants). I write about RPGs as games, not as story-telling aids or playgrounds, but I am describing, not prescribing even as I obviously prefer the Old School. Let’s proceed.

If it’s a game (Old School (OS)), there’s a significant chance you can lose, you can fail. If it’s a story session, with no chance you can lose, it’s something else. This is like a co-operative board game that you cannot lose: why bother to play?

In terms of story, in OS the players write their own story, with the benefit of the GM’s assistance. The GM sets up a situation and lets the players get on with it. (This is sometimes called [FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]"[/FONT][/FONT]sandbox[FONT=&amp][FONT=&amp]"[/FONT][/FONT] in video games, though video games tend to impose an overall story as a limitation of using computer programming instead of a human GM.) The other extreme is when the GM tells the players a story through the game. (In video games this is called a linear game, where the story always ends up the same way.)

If a GM is Old School and runs the same adventure for several different groups, the results will probably vary wildly. If the GM is at the other extreme, the overall shape of the adventure will be the same each time, with variance only in the details.

Old School adventures are usually highly co-operative, because the characters will DIE if they don’t cooperate. New School doesn’t require cooperation, you’re going to survive anyway.

Not surprisingly, as the hobby has grown, the proportion of wargamers (now a small hobby) has decreased drastically. Many players are not even hobby gamers, that is, they’re not quite “gamers” in the old sense because the only game they play is their RPG(s). Many people want their games to be stories, so the shift from Old School to something else is not surprising.

D&D 5e bears the marks of the newer playing methods, as there’s lots of healing as well as the ridiculous cleric spell revivify for mere fifth level clerics.

There are all kinds of shades of the two extremes, obviously. And all kinds of ways of running RPGs. Next time, I’ll talk about more differences between Old School and newer ways of playing such as Rules and Pacing, and compare with non-RPGs.

This article was contributed by Lewis Pulsipher (lewpuls) as part of EN World's Columnist (ENWC) program. You can follow Lew on his web site and his Udemy course landing page. If you enjoy the daily news and articles from EN World, please consider contributing to our Patreon!
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio

Von Ether

Legend
While I agree that Old School is matter of attitude, I have two demarcation lines:
  • The balanced encounters vs. environmental encounters. i.e. Every encounter the party faces is balanced towards their combat effectiveness as compared to encounters being designed to reflect the environment -- thus a party may get in over their head in a fight if they don't read the signs or refused to use other strategies (stealth, parley, etc.) The game world cherry picks between "simulation" and the game being just a game.
  • The game leans more on playing group's overall intelligence and knowledge and allows for lots of table talk so if the player of the dumb fighter figures out the puzzle, he can coach the wizard's player through the steps of the solution so as to maintain a suspension of disbelief.

If the GM is at the other extreme, the overall shape of the adventure will be the same each time, with variance only in the details.

This statement is exaggerated and completely discounts GM improv skills.

Just because death maybe off the table for many storytelling games, doesn't mean the GM's railroads the group down one path, or that player decision don't deal with real consequences or create new paths for the emergent story at the table.

If you envisioned a old school sandbox game were the GM slavishly went with every random table roll and didn't tweak the results (guidelines, not rules) you might be able to make the same statement about Old School. The main difference being that instead of a GM making an plot outline, the dice did it for him.

From what I've seen, a lot of old school GMs use the tables as tools for inspiration, springboards for improve, and to randomize some plot details, but they still make the final call if the results are to be used.

And just in case it needs to be said, I don't think either attitude (or combination of attitudes or even switching attitudes) is badwrongfun as long as your group is also on board with it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

log in or register to remove this ad

Ramaster

Adventurer
This reads like it was written by someone who played 1ed D&D for about 10 years 30 years ago, then played 2 sessions of 4e about 5 years ago (DMed by a 14 year old GM who was running a game for the first time), then read a bunch of articles by people who had similar experiences.


You claim that you won't be "one true way" then expend the rest of the article being exactly that, what gives?


Quote:


"There seem to be many definitions, but I now see the fundamental divide as not about rules. Rather, it’s about the attitude of the GM, and of the players, toward losing and failure."


Then immediately go on to criticize a 5ed spell.


Yes, RPGs have changed since their inception. What's the point of the article? I suspect that, even after the 3 parts, there won't be any. Or it will be that Old School is the "one true way", but you’ll arrive at the conclusion with a hyperbole. I don't know what's worse.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
The very first game of a new group, back in college, playing 2E. The group came in... and we got completely destroyed. TPK in the first session. The next day, we rolled up new characters (which were pretty much the same as the originals, to be honest), and we tried again, and didn't die.

And, today, not a one among us can tell you a darned thing about that first TPK. We remember that it happened, but not a single detail. There is no war story of how we all died in that awesome fight. We just... all died, and tried again the next day. No big whoop.

Tangential note: my first game (back in 1977) as a player resulted in a TPK by attrition, with my fighter and the party wizard as the only participants in the game’s final battle. I can’t speak for the others, but I remember that battle extremely well. It was epic and it hooked me for life.

And the thing is, it was entirely an Old School style of play. The DM had no real interest in storytelling, but the game was memorable anyway.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
In the wave of new gamers, as WotC has said before (via Mike Mearls, in some roundtables) we're approaching a mark where the total fan base is almost 50%/50% gamers from pre-2014, and gamers from post-2014. That's a culture shift of seismic proportions in what gamers might want out of a game, compared to the minis-wargame culture that spawned and molded it from 1974 to the 2000s:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqjLO6YNKV0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFbCxuvknWM

(I may be misquoting Mike's figures, but I do know he talked about the huge influx of new players in the last three years and how it's changing their expectations of what gamers want in their D&D.)

I haven't watched the videos you linked to, but I'm curious if Mike Mearls gets further into what constitutes "the fanbase"?

Is it people who regularly play D&D a certain number of times per month?
Is it people who spend X dollars on D&D products over the course of a year?
Is it people who watch streaming games and read about D&D online for some-odd hours per week?
Is it people who self-identify as fans of D&D?
 

AriochQ

Adventurer
This reads like it was written by someone who played 1ed D&D for about 10 years 30 years ago, then played 2 sessions of 4e about 5 years ago (DMed by a 14 year old GM who was running a game for the first time), then read a bunch of articles by people who had similar experiences.


You claim that you won't be "one true way" then expend the rest of the article being exactly that, what gives?


Quote:


"There seem to be many definitions, but I now see the fundamental divide as not about rules. Rather, it’s about the attitude of the GM, and of the players, toward losing and failure."


Then immediately go on to criticize a 5ed spell.


Yes, RPGs have changed since their inception. What's the point of the article? I suspect that, even after the 3 parts, there won't be any. Or it will be that Old School is the "one true way", but you’ll arrive at the conclusion with a hyperbole. I don't know what's worse.

Most, if not all, of Lew's 'articles' have a "Get off my lawn!" feel to them. They do generate comments, but most tend to be in opposition to the point he is trying to make.

I put 'article' in quotes because I generally expect a more non-biased viewpoint in this type of forum. IMHO, these type of posting would be more appropriate to a blog. That being said, it is entertaining to read the comments and they are, ironically, often more informative than the OP.
 

Ramaster

Adventurer
That's just saying "X politician is running our country into the ground, but I voted for him/her because it makes for funnier memes".
 

Henry

Autoexreginated
Most, if not all, of Lew's 'articles' have a "Get off my lawn!" feel to them. They do generate comments, but most tend to be in opposition to the point he is trying to make.

I put 'article' in quotes because I generally expect a more non-biased viewpoint in this type of forum. IMHO, these type of posting would be more appropriate to a blog. That being said, it is entertaining to read the comments and they are, ironically, often more informative than the OP.

...and therefore, Rope Trick is a healing spell. :)

Sorry, joke from another thread...

I like Lew's articles specifically because they generate lively debate, not of the ever-present "Sharpshooter Feat is overpowered / Class X is underpowered" variety.

Ramaster said:
This reads like it was written by someone who played 1ed D&D for about 10 years 30 years ago, then played 2 sessions of 4e about 5 years ago (DMed by a 14 year old GM who was running a game for the first time), then read a bunch of articles by people who had similar experiences.

Nonetheless, he's got a point in that newer RPGs are designed to minimize TPKs as much as possible; The odds of a TPK are (totally imaginary numbers here) like a 1 in 20 versus AD&D's 1 in 5. The odds of outright "save or die" is almost nil for any one character in D&D5 - only very rare amounts of damage in one shot. There is no save or die for any spell, no save or die for any poison, no dying immediately at 0 hit points. For letting characters continue play despite setbacks, this is awesome; but for someone whose first experiences were under a system with those as distinct possibilities, it doesn't evoke the same environment; kind of like Lord of the Rings versus Game of Thrones. (If I were playing an actual Game of Thrones-style D&D game, I'd probably use something like AD&D, too.) :)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Henry

Autoexreginated
That's just saying "X politician is running our country into the ground, but I voted for him/her because it makes for funnier memes".

There's a vast difference between having strong opinions in a Tabletop Gaming column versus having political power, and that's where I'll end that thought. :)
 

Arilyn

Hero
The danger of OS philosophy on character death is the often the opposite of what it is trying to achieve. If you know that there is a decent chance your character will die, probably through bad rolls or mischance, you stop engaging with your characters. They become game pieces. You bring a binder full of backups, or start creating Bob the 2nd, 3rd, etc. I've seen players deliberately kill off their current character, because they are bored and want to try something new. If you are on your third character of so, I would argue that there is probably not much suspense left.

In NS, you can't usually escape consequences. You failed to save the village, you backed the wrong noble who is an evil manipulator, the super villain has taken over your country...
Even in a game that has no player death, these are real failures that generate as much, if not more tension, than just dying from poor dice rolls, or a bad decision. Of course, OS can have these issues too. My point is that these kinds of failures are more interesting than dying.
 

Nathaniel Lee

Adventurer
Are there a lot of new players in the hobby who assume you can't 'lose' in D&D because their favorite streamers haven't 'lost' yet?

They've at the very least dealt with player character permadeath, though, which should be condition them to at least expect that their characters _can_ die, if nothing else. :)
 

Related Articles

Remove ads

Remove ads

Top