Worlds of Design: Leveling vs. Training

We previously covered why training systems were abandoned in D&D. Here's what replaced it.

We previously covered why training systems were abandoned in D&D. Here's what replaced it.

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Picture courtesy of Pixabay.

“For the things we have to learn before we can do them, we learn by doing them.” ― Aristotle

Congratulations on Advancing, Pay Up!​

I’ve always thought one of the worst mistakes in AD&D (not repeated in later editions) was the requirement that when you reach enough experience points to rise in level you have to pay somebody an exorbitant sum to “train” reach that new level. I suppose these rules were an attempt to take excess money out of the game, but if applied as written it turned adventurers into mere money grubbers (much worse than treasure-hunters) in order to acquire enough money for training. I want a game of heroes, not money-grubbers, and I doubt that Gary Gygax wanted adventurers to be money-grubbers when he wrote AD&D.

As I discussed in the previous article, it was also wrong-headed because if you did the things that enabled you to survive and prosper then why would you need somebody to train you? You don't teach or even train people in order to somehow mysteriously activate what they already know/know how to do. You teach them in order to provide a substitute for real-world experience (If you're a good teacher, that is) People learn best from experience, and by talking with other practitioners in order to learn from them, and as you get more experience, you improve.

And then there's the chicken and egg question: where did the original trainer come from? There must be a way to learn these things successfully without being trained by someone else.

Fundamentally, we have two competing systems: a level-based system that uses the word “experience” to reflect characters’ development through adventuring, and a more monetary system that requires payment to advance.

The Devolution of Training in D&D​

Subsequent editions of Dungeons & Dragons gradually phased this requirement out, for good reason. I suspect the training rule was dropped in later editions because the designers realized it turns the most noble adventurers (including monks and paladins) into mercenaries, especially when experience points are given for gold. I didn’t need a rule to extract cash from adventurers. I do not give away big treasures, as treasure does not provide experience points in my games.

In AD&D 2nd Edition, training was relegated to an optional rule:
Characters must pay a tutor around 100 gp per level per week, with the duration based on the instructor's Wisdom score. The character must then pass a Wisdom or Intelligence check to level up, retrying each week until successful. The tutor must be a character of the same class and of higher level.
In D&D 3rd Edition, it was assumed characters practiced their skills during downtime, with an optional rule of working with an instructor at 50 gp per week. Skills took one week per skill rank and feats took two weeks. Class abilities and spells also required expenditure of time and money. By 4th Edition, training was removed entirely (with a reference to proficiency replacing training).

Why it Went Away​

There’s nothing inherently wrong with leveling up rules. D&D was intended to be relatively simple. Leveling is meant to be an abstraction in which characters are finally getting a tangible in-game benefit from their experiences that they would have achieved gradually in a real world.

This sudden jump up a level is similar to how hit points are treated in D&D. You don't lose capability as you accumulate damage, but when you get to zero hit points, you’re suddenly incapacitated. Later systems have strayed from the simple hit point approach to cause more nuanced damage, so that characters suffer different penalties than just hit points over time.

This waning effectiveness has its roots in wargames with unit “steps” (including many block games). Damaged units decrease capabilities in discrete increments, because that’s the best we can do with non-computer games. But some designers think that’s better than a unit being fully capable until suddenly it’s dead, as was true in all the older Avalon Hill games such as Stalingrad and Afrika Korps.

More modern games reject this idea of leveling entirely, preferring instead to allow characters to focus on different skills from a pool and increase those as they see fit. It requires considerably more bookkeeping, which is why you see this style of advancement more often in computer role-playing games. Computers make it much easier to keep track of the minute details—and of percentages.

Stepped or Nuanced?​

If we were willing to accept the additional record-keeping and complexity, we could have gradual decreases in abilities with injuries sustained for RPG characters. Similarly, we could have characters increase in one skill or feat before they fully level up. And in some RPG rulesets that is the case, but not in intended-to-be-simple D&D.

D&D codified technical skill with the Proficiency Bonus in 5th Edition, a modifier that is uniformly applied to many aspects of a character’s capabilities. While not a one-to-one equivalent of a character’s level, the Proficiency Bonus replaces much of the fiddly bits of how good a character is at combat, or spellcasting, or avoiding damage by tying it all to one number.

Conversely, there are some rules that restore degrees of advancement or failure in between levels. 5th Edition reserves training for learning new languages or tool proficiencies independent of levels (250 days at a cost of 1 gp per day). Optional rules added further complications and costs in Xanathar's Guide to Everything.

On the damage side, 5E has exhaustion levels, which provide a separate track of penalties from hit point loss alone (and can still result in character death!). Speaking of death, there are now death saves, with three fails accumulating in the death of a character.

Despite the relatively simple approach D&D has to success and failure, it’s clear players crave more nuance in how their characters develop or die. We see this in more modern RPGs and in D&D’s gradual removal of training as a requirement for advancement.

Your Turn: What subsystems do you use for advancement or failure in your games?
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I think the problem here comes from having both an XP system and training requirements. The two systems interact poorly because earning the XP required to level up feels like you’ve put in the work, but you don’t get to enjoy the benefits of that work until you shell out the cash.
You're IMO making the same error as the OP: you've got the cycle sequence backwards.

The cycle goes first classroom (training and $), then second field practice (adventuring) during which you gain practical experience in what you were just taught in the classroom. Xp measures that practical experience (shockingly well IMO for what was intended as a purely gamist construct), and when you've got enough you go back into the classroom for another round of training.

It's easy to get it backwards because there's no roleplay of the training and costs, the first thing roleplayed is 1st level field adventuring; but the costs and training prior to 1st level exist notwithstanding.
 

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Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Out of curiosity, since I don't really want to look it up- do 1e Druids and Monks have to pay for training at higher levels?
I've never had one reach high enough level for this to crop up (and long ago took it out for Nature Clerics a.k.a. Druids); ditto Assassins, for whom the same requirement applies.
I'm just imagining this scenario: the Druid reaches a level where they have to win a duel to level up. Upon winning, they are told that now they have to pony up umpteen thousand gold pieces on top of it!
I think I'd have the duel be an integral part of the training.

Another obvious thing I added to the kill-to-advance piece is that the trainee could advance by proving a vacancy already exists and otherwise training normally, to allow for the higher-level person they'd normally have to duel having died elsewise in the meantime.
 

Voadam

Legend
Training should be for something special, not your next level. Having to seek out a master who lives in a secluded location, or endure "training from hell" to get a few more hit points and maybe a new ability doesn't sound great.

Out of curiosity, since I don't really want to look it up- do 1e Druids and Monks have to pay for training at higher levels? I'm just imagining this scenario: the Druid reaches a level where they have to win a duel to level up. Upon winning, they are told that now they have to pony up umpteen thousand gold pieces on top of it!
Once they hit name level though they don't have to do training anymore. See Alzrius's paste of the 1e dmg page 86. I'd have to look up if there is an overlap of dueling requirements and pre name levels for them.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Once they hit name level though they don't have to do training anymore. See Alzrius's paste of the 1e dmg page 86. I'd have to look up if there is an overlap of dueling requirements and pre name levels for them.
Ah, ok, so the instant you should be spending money on your domain, training is no longer a concern.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
You're IMO making the same error as the OP: you've got the cycle sequence backwards.

The cycle goes first classroom (training and $), then second field practice (adventuring) during which you gain practical experience in what you were just taught in the classroom. Xp measures that practical experience (shockingly well IMO for what was intended as a purely gamist construct), and when you've got enough you go back into the classroom for another round of training.

It's easy to get it backwards because there's no roleplay of the training and costs, the first thing roleplayed is 1st level field adventuring; but the costs and training prior to 1st level exist notwithstanding.
Oh, no, I totally get the narrative. But the fact of the matter is, it’s not an intuitive narrative for most players, and even if they do understand it logically, it still just feels bad. Psychologically speaking, it’s very satisfying to make progress bars fill up. But, that satisfaction is undermined when filling up the bar doesn’t immediately get you the thing it marks progress towards. You can explain logically why it makes sense until you’re blue in the face, it’s still just going to be viscerally, emotionally dissatisfying to the majority of players. Fortunately, if you just take the XP out of the equation, the gold that the players spend on training is just as effective of a progress bar. Training costs alone can serve all the same functions as an XP for gold system, without the drawbacks of having both XP and training costs.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Once they hit name level though they don't have to do training anymore. See Alzrius's paste of the 1e dmg page 86. I'd have to look up if there is an overlap of dueling requirements and pre name levels for them.
Ah, ok, so the instant you should be spending money on your domain, training is no longer a concern.
That makes sense, and would not be reproducible without the XP bar.
 

Oof, that's a double whammy if you lose, the gold is gone, and so is (as I recall) half the xp!
Pretty much. You have to regain the level before you can challenge again. You are reduced to the minimum experience for the level beneath the level you challenged and lost (in 1E, and OE).
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Oh, no, I totally get the narrative. But the fact of the matter is, it’s not an intuitive narrative for most players, and even if they do understand it logically, it still just feels bad. Psychologically speaking, it’s very satisfying to make progress bars fill up. But, that satisfaction is undermined when filling up the bar doesn’t immediately get you the thing it marks progress towards. You can explain logically why it makes sense until you’re blue in the face, it’s still just going to be viscerally, emotionally dissatisfying to the majority of players.
I don't recall it ever being an issue here. But then, levelling isn't as big a deal in our games as it seems to be in some.
Fortunately, if you just take the XP out of the equation, the gold that the players spend on training is just as effective of a progress bar. Training costs alone can serve all the same functions as an XP for gold system, without the drawbacks of having both XP and training costs.
So...they level up when they get rich enough??? Some of my greedy players would love that! :)

Otherwise, where's the progress bar?
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
Pretty much. You have to regain the level before you can challenge again. You are reduced to the minimum experience for the level beneath the level you challenged and lost (in 1E, and OE).
So all the xp. No bueno! Though, as was pointed out, you probably no longer need training once you have to start challenging higher ups to progress.

Say, didn't Paladins, Rangers, and Monks have wealth restrictions in 1e? Wouldn't that make training problematic?
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Say, didn't Paladins, Rangers, and Monks have wealth restrictions in 1e? Wouldn't that make training problematic?
Paladins were limited to x-number of magic items and were expected to donate much of their acquired wealth to worthy causes (though IME few ever did). They were also among the slowest-advancing of classes (thus had to train a bit less often) and I don't recall any ever having trouble footing the training bill.

Rangers were limited to what they and their mount could carry, which if one's mount is a warhorse can be quite a lot. Never saw one be particularly short of funds; and they were another slow-advancing class.

Monks I'm not so sure about as it's been decades since I saw a RAW 1e Monk in play - if, come to think of it, ever.
 

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