Worlds of Design: Spelljammer 2.0

As a big fan of the old Spelljammer, I really wanted to like the new 5e version. But it doesn’t fix some of the problems of the old version.

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What Sets Spelljammer Apart​

Beth Rimmels wrote a thorough review of the new Spelljammer product ($44.93 including tax, free shipping, from Amazon; list $69.99). This is my perspective on what’s changed.

What sets fantasy adventures in outer space apart from other settings? First it is the ships themselves and ship to ship combat, and second it is a new set of monsters designed for “space”, such as the Neogi and the solar dragons. The third book of the set is the monster manual for the setting, and it works fine. The ships are a substantial part of the first book that describes how Spelljammer works (though its title is Astral Adventurer’s Guide). The other book is an adventure path.

Same Setting, New Edition​

There’s been some discussion lately that Wizards of the Coast may have adopted a strategy of issuing new D&D settings but relying on the DM’s Guild for third-party support thereafter. Spelljammer shows signs of this. Moreover, it is only 192 pages despite being three pasteboard hardcover books; much of that is occupied by artwork. Artwork doesn’t do much for a GM, certainly not when the resulting product is too short to adequately describe itself.

Perhaps because of the limited space available, the new Spelljammer doesn’t dive very deeply into most topics. Instead of greatly improving the setting they have merely given it a brief new paint job. The approach feels a bit like the approach to board games, in which most board games are played up to three times at most, because players have so many other games to choose from. I wonder if this has also become the norm for role-playing game publishers, with the expectation that most customers won’t be playing in the setting for more than a few sessions.

Sinking Ships​

To me, the main interest of Spelljammer is the ships and ship combat. (Then again, I’ve always been a fan of the Naval aspects of history, including when I wrote my dissertation.). Unfortunately, there’s a considerable lack of detail in how ship combat works. There is no maneuverability rating; as far as I can tell any ship can stop or turn on a dime, move sideways or backwards at full speed. In the adventure, ships always initially appear quite close to one another to limit opportunities for maneuver. The ship determines the tactical speed, not the level of the helmsman (now called the spelljammer).

The ship diagrams look very much like the old ones, not a bad thing. Helms are cheap. There is no spell penalty for helming a ship (in the old system, the caster lost all of their spells). Level of helmsman doesn't matter for tactical speed or much of anything else.

Ship tonnage is no longer specified, just hit points (250-450 generally). That helps avoid some of the bizarre inconsistencies in size between ship diagrams and the official size of ships in the old rules. Ship diagrams are very reminiscent of the old, may even be the same in a few cases, and it is mostly the same ships as in the original. There are still odd allocations of square footage, such as a captain’s cabin much larger than the entire crew quarters for 21 crew. Some diagrams show a location for the helm (an important point in boarding), some don’t.

The standard appears to be just one spelljammer (helmsman) on a ship! The ship can move 24/7, but helmsman, who must concentrate as for a spell, is not going to last more than half a day. Why no second or third helmsman?

This version feels as though it treats the ships as mere transportation, a way of getting from one place to another. I’m not sure that’s a fair assessment but that’s how it feels to me, the game is not ship oriented even though the ships are the unique feature of adventures in outer space.

Other Changes​

The entire second book is a sort of adventure path that takes characters from 5th to 9th level. Unfortunately, the objective is, yet again, to save a world. My impression is that the creators felt that players would only play Spelljammer a few times, so they included a big “save the world” adventure sequence so that people could be done with the setting when they finished the sequence. I would instead have preferred some unconnected adventures for lower-level characters who could then look forward to bigger things.

It is not all one-sided disappointment. One change that makes sense: instead of “the phlogiston” connecting star systems together, the Astral Sea is the connection. Githyanki are present! As if mind flayers and beholders weren’t bad enough.

It’s a shame, because Spelljammer is chock full of ideas … and full of inconsistencies. The new edition was an opportunity to streamline the setting by taking the best of what came before. Instead, we got some tantalizing concepts and not enough content to do them justice.

Your Turn: Did you create or borrow rules from other systems to play in your Spelljammer campaign?
 
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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio

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dave2008

Legend
Dungeon #92/Polyhedron#151 (they were published in flip-book format at the time) has a nearly 50-page section devoted to Shadows of the Spider Moon, a concise adaptation of the Spelljammer rules to the 3.X version of the game. (I don't recall if it was 3.0 or 3.5 at the time.)

Johnathan
Then I guess we have @Erdric Dragin covered: Dungeon #92 Not sure how complete those rules are, but it is a start!
 

dave2008

Legend
@Micah Sweet , I do like how Dark Matter and Wildjammer use "Mega" hit points and damage. It makes a lot of sense and I am doing something similar with my 5e "Immortals" rules. Though I am currently using a x10 expanding scale instead of a fixed x100, I may have to rethink it!
 

Retreater

Legend
We should have stayed back in 3.5e, when the books they released actually had a good amount of fluff and crunch AND we still had Dragon/Dungeon Magazines as supplements.

Nowadays...Zero Calorie D&D is proving to be what I always knew it would be...110% Hype and 1% Substance.
Paizo is still putting out the goods. World books with great art and flavor. Adventures that actually use high level play. Guides with lots of character options.
The way I see it, Wizards is complacent. Sitting so high above every other TTRPG punisher, they think they don't even have to try.
As they indicated in the Playtest video, they think they already created the "perfect game."
As long as they think that, nothing interesting will come from the minds at WotC.
 

Richards

Legend
We should have stayed back in 3.5e, when the books they released actually had a good amount of fluff and crunch AND we still had Dragon/Dungeon Magazines as supplements.
Some of us have done exactly that. I've still got plenty of 3.5 material in sourcebooks I've yet to fully tap. I figure I can continue playing 3.5 for the rest of my gaming career, if it comes to that.

Johnathan
 

I have bought a lot of 3.5 books, and WotC shouldn't "rest on laurels" (= to be satisfied with your achievements and not to make an effort to do anything else) because Paizo publishes sourcebooks with a good crunch, and by 3PPs.

I feel in 3.5 using the same space more things were told. I don't dislike the look of the 5Ed but I feel there is less text in the same number of pages. And the books are more expensive in the past.

I had to await a lot of years to can buy the translated edition, and now I don't want hurry to buy the next books.

Have I said there is less space in my room for the books?
 

The way I see it, Wizards is complacent. Sitting so high above every other TTRPG punisher, they think they don't even have to try.
As they indicated in the Playtest video, they think they already created the "perfect game."
As long as they think that, nothing interesting will come from the minds at WotC.
I too am getting discouraged by WotC and have little faith in their output of product moving forward; and this Spelljammer product may have just put the final nail in the coffin. I cancelled my Dragonlance pre-order, have no interest in Planescape, or anything from here on out until the 2024 release of the revised core books. If the revisions are truly just 5.5 half edition and not a new edition, I think I'll bow out at that point. That remains to be seen though when that time comes.

I got the .pdf of Everyday Heroes from Evil Genius Games last night. I browsed it for a good hour or so, and I liked what I saw. Looks like they tweaked things just enough to make it interesting and they packed a lot into 461 pages. The DM section had many good how to's, explanations and examples of how things work and how to run them. Looks like a good successor to both Alternity and d20 Modern. These small things go a long way and WotC should be taking notes and consider a shift in product format and content, because I sure don't need another mega adventure or compilation from them.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
You still can, and most if its available on DMsGuild too!

PS I would give you a link, but then I remembered there are no 3.5e spelljammer products! 3e was the king of hype and no substance;) But heck, here is a link the 3.5 Rules Compendium to get you started


Well your math is off there a bit. There is actually a lot of substance in this product, it is in fact jam-packed with substance. The issue is there is so much more that could be covered that it would need a much bigger book. Now personally, I could have done without the adventure book and those pages put into the setting or bestiary. But to suggest there is no substance in the product is just FUD.

EDIT: To clarify, I own Spelljammer: Adventures in Space and think it is neither great, nor awful. It is ok. There is a lot I like, and quite a bit that is useless to me (the whole adventure).
The thing is, I'm not paying $70 for a product that has quite a bit that is useless to me.
 



VelvetViolet

Adventurer
While I agree with replacing phlogiston with the astral, this change has ramifications for the rest of the cosmology. Previous editions assumed the material plane was a contiguous plane but now it's a series of unconnected spheres floating within the astral. Why is it even considered its own plane anymore? Not to mention that heaven and hell are now reachable by spaceship. The cosmology is an overcomplicated mess to begin with and this change only reiterates that.
 


AdmundfortGeographer

Getting lost in fantasy maps
The vast majority of my 2e playing years was in Spelljammer games. There was only 1 person ever enthusiastic about ship-to-ship Spelljammer combat, the DM. And one player who went along with what the others saw as a non-D&D diversion.

Everyone else either sat around, grabbed a book, or grabbed a card came while we waited until ship boarding started and D&D started again.

I haven’t received my copy yet so I have nothing to go on, but hearing enough of the criticism that the ship combat was maybe overly light got me preemptively looking for something that is still light enough to get into boarding combat fast, but not something that will take so much brain-space or requiring constant referencing every time. Skycrawl‘s looked a promising subsystem for my needs.
 
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There was only 1 person ever enthusiastic about ship-to-ship Spelljammer combat, the DM.
When I ran 2E ship-to-ship combat I always made sure the players were involved, helming the ship, hauling ballista bolts, loading, manning and firing armaments, etc, Seemed to work well for us, but we used it sparingly. When every adventure is a space naval battle and boarding, I can see it getting boring quick.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
When I ran 2E ship-to-ship combat I always made sure the players were involved, helming the ship, hauling ballista bolts, loading, manning and firing armaments, etc, Seemed to work well for us, but we used it sparingly. When every adventure is a space naval battle and boarding, I can see it getting boring quick.
Yeah, you really have to get the players involved for buy in. Dark Matter and Wildjammer both use the idea of crew positions with specific actions you can take to facilitate this.
 


jasper

Rotten DM
I ran the Spelljammer Academy and so far the first two parts of the adventure. I am freaking glad I did not pay full price for the FLGS version. This is everyone toss the dm 5 bucks so they can add to the collection. There are rules light systems but this is rules might exist.

5 new races with another elf tack on. But the bad glide and history of the flying wizard of oz monkey race made into the release version. The Hipp um Giff makes it but they have guns. But no new equipment chart for anything. So back to 10 GP a shot when you adventure in the realms.
Hey I love a bunch of floor plans with the repeating stats of weapon platforms. Not. They were told each ship had to be two pages and repeated the ballista and Mangonel stats. There should be a weapon platform page for this information. Ballista stats, cannon stats, Mangoel stats, grabbing hook cannon stats.

Ship to ship combat is worse than Saltmarsh. Saltmarsh gave you stats for the ship so you know it plus or minus for a fireball. Saltmarsh gave you crew and passenger numbers. Saltmarsh gives you crew positions and what they can do.
Spelljammer said you have crew, your helmsperson gets 50 GP a day and distance between ships starts at long longbow range and goes to 1,000 feet. Currently I allowing an opposed spell casting ability check to give the winning side advantage on their weapon platforms.

Some of the monsters are fun but others are just bad puns.

the adventure so far is just a Disney rollercoaster highlighting some the new monsters.

This book should have stayed in preproduction for another few months. It is the only WOTC book I have given two stars too. And even with an after play review coming up, I don't think I going to give a better score.
 

Yeah, you really have to get the players involved for buy in. Dark Matter and Wildjammer both use the idea of crew positions with specific actions you can take to facilitate this.
Unless my players make a decision to split the party up or agree to stand on the sidelines while one PC does something relevant to the adventure, I always try to keep the party together and keep the players engaged. Nothings worse than seeing a player on their phone or disinterested with glazed over eyes.

Im currently working on a Spelljammer adventure to actually kick the tires on the 5E version to see if it plays better than it reads. Im going to give the players each their own Mosquito ships. The name on the side is going to be Dak and Porkins.
 

VelvetViolet

Adventurer
I have a feeling the next iteration of Planescape is going to be severely truncated/combined and retconned to fit into a 64 pg book if its following suit with the Spelljammer slipcase model.
I can imagined that it would be shortened considerably, but I don't think they'd outright change much since the cosmology is already spelled out in DMG. It's identical to 2e except for the addition of the feywild and shadowfell (which are just the negative and positive planes reflavored anyway) and the removal of the quasi-elemental planes.
 

Micah Sweet

Level Up & OSR Enthusiast
I can imagined that it would be shortened considerably, but I don't think they'd outright change much since the cosmology is already spelled out in DMG. It's identical to 2e except for the addition of the feywild and shadowfell (which are just the negative and positive planes reflavored anyway) and the removal of the quasi-elemental planes.
By that time the new DMG will be right around the corner. They might not feel beholden to the cosmology in the 2014 version.
 

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