Worlds of Design: The Lost Art of Being Lost

If you’ve played tabletop RPGs long enough, you’ve probably been in an adventure where your party got lost. Yet it’s much less likely to happen nowadays.

If you’ve played tabletop RPGs long enough, you’ve probably been in an adventure where your party got lost. Yet it’s much less likely to happen nowadays.

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Picture courtesy of Pixabay.

You got to go down a lot of wrong roads to find the right one. - Bob Parsons
If you’ve played tabletop RPGs long enough, you’ve probably been in an adventure where your party got lost, or cut off from retracing their path home (which amounts to the same thing). Remember how exciting it was? Getting lost is a common occurrence in actual military operations. Yet it’s much less likely to happen in tabletop RPGs nowadays.

Fog of War​

In the first years of playing Dungeons & Dragons, many of my most memorable adventures were ones where we got lost in a place with few pathways, such as a dungeon. The cause could be as simple as a one-way door, or a rotating room. But this has changed, and it’s due in no small part to computer role-playing games (CRPGs).

In D&D’s early days, one of the fundamental roles of any party was the mapper. The idea being that the dungeon was concealed through fog of war, in which games simulate ignorance of strength and position of friends and foes. A common staple of board games, it was carried over into wargames and D&D. A mapper was an out-of-game role for a player (although presumably, the player’s character was also creating a map) so that retreat and further exploration were possible.

Fog of war changed how D&D was played. Being lost or cut off from home requires a different mode of play. In typical play you can go through an encounter or two, then stop (or go back home) to recover before you continue. But when you’re lost, you have to husband your resources much more carefully (depends on the game rules, of course).

Fog of war has a lot of fiddly tactical elements, not the least of which being that it requires keeping players in the dark. Dungeon masters must keep track of what’s happening with two separate maps, one representing the “real” dungeon and one representing what the PCs have explored. If the game is procedurally generated, it may be that even the DM doesn’t know the layout of the “real” dungeon, creating it as the players explore it.

This is a lot of work, which is why when the concept was ported to CRPGs, mapping was offloaded to the program.

Computers Take Over​

The Dunjonquest series of games were one of the first to replicate dungeon exploring, using numbered rooms and text descriptions that were read separately in a booklet resembling a pen-and-paper adventure module. But it wasn’t long before games just mapped everything for you. As computer power increased, virtual worlds got bigger, as did the opportunity for players to get lost. Many CRPGs provide waypoints that show the direction, if not the distance, to the next quest.

This led to the conventional wisdom that CRPGs should “always make sure the player knows what to do/where to go next.” It’s a form of handholding, making sure that players don’t get frustrated, that derives in part from the prevalence of free-to-play (F2P) games. If a free game is frustrating, players may quit it and (easily) find another to play.

The design objective in free-to-play video games is not to challenge the player(s), but to engage them in an electronic playground long enough that they’ll decide to spend money on micro transactions, or other methods of acquiring the player’s money. In a game that costs the player nothing to procure, anything that’s frustrating tends to be avoided, except when that frustration is a slow progress “pain point” that the player can fix by spending some money to speed things up. Negative consequences are avoided.

This approach can surprised players accustomed to CRPG-style exploration.

The Fun of Getting Lost​

The same factors that led to CRPGs streamlining mapping affect tabletop games: lack of players, lack of time, and getting players up to speed quickly so they can play.

While getting lost can be fun, not everyone wants their first play experience to be wandering around in the dark. New players expect to jump into the action, at least in part because so many other forms of entertainment allow them to do just that.

This of course depends on the style of play. Players might not be as frustrated in sessions where the GM is telling a story, as players will regard getting lost as a necessary part of the story. In a story, getting lost is exciting and mysterious. But (as GM) if you’re “writing” a story for your players, you have to control when they get lost, you can’t let it happen randomly. And if they’re used to you guiding them through a story, they’ll lose that excitement and mystery of getting lost, because they’ll know you’re in control.

Consider the Secret Door​

Whether or not a DM uses secret doors encapsulates if characters can get lost in a dungeon. If the DM is telling a story, a secret door is more of an obstacle—the PCs will presumably find it no matter what to progress the story. If the DM is running the game as a simulation in which the PCs’ dungeoneering skills are tested, the secret door may not be found at all and the room behind it may never be discovered.

Where this becomes an issue if players think they’re playing a story game but the DM is running a simulation. A dislike of secret doors by novices in D&D, sometimes termed by players as a “dirty GM trick,” represents the conflicting approaches. Some players want clear paths instead of obstacles. They’re not interested in allowing secret doors to perform their primary function: rewarding players for skillful dungeoneering.

Video gamers learn what they "should" do next. Board gamers of the Eurostyle learn the Generally Accepted Best Move in This Situation, and other players may actually get mad at you if you play differently! (This is partly a consequence of "multiple paths to victory" that everyone must follow to solve the puzzle of the parallel competition.) TTRPGers have much more "freedom," fortunately.

If your campaign is a simulation, then getting characters lost is a good way to challenge and excite players. If your game is a playground, or a storytelling session, the players might not react favorably.

Your Turn: Do you allow parties to get lost in your games?
 

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Lewis Pulsipher

Lewis Pulsipher

Dragon, White Dwarf, Fiend Folio
From experience I can say that getting lost can be fun, but the whole table (i.e. the players) must be on board with it.

If you have players who expect that the "getting lost" is a puzzle that will be solved within one session, while in reality you will be lost for a long time, those players will get quite frustrated when none of their solutions to the problem seem to work. In other words, you need a Session Zero to get people on board with this story.
 

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MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Those first two spells must be 5e specials as I've never heard of 'em.

Locate Object is an oldie but it ain't perfect: it tells you something's within your range and gives a direction but doesn't tell you how to get there. Find the Path is much higher level and is, IMO, skirting the edge of broken if not crossing right over it.
There is now RAW spell for finding secret doors in 5e, but there is the Wand of Secrets.

Like many things in 5e, it is a very different game at different levels. You don't have to bother wasting spell slots and magic-item charges once you have characters with exceptionally high passive perception. Sure, you can always ratchet up the DC levels of the secret doors. But I think that should be done very selectively. Players should be rewarded for getting there characters to the level where old challenges are now easily overcome. When you have secret doors that are insanely well hidden, there should be a reason for this. Also, I think it is better that they somehow obtain knowledge that such secret place exist, especially if important to them meeting their objectives.

In my current campaign, they party received some intel, backed up by downtime divination, of a secret area located within a massive cavern. They were at a high level, so they had access to ethereal travel. They had to carefully go through the cavern examining all the rock faces and rock formations. Various encounters happened along the way. Eventually, they found a large rock formation where ethereal travel was blocked. Then they had to investigate and try to find a way to get in.

That said, sometimes it is fun to keep some high-level but random secret doors and compartments. Also, to keep some value to actively role playing searching, my players and I agreed to a home brew rule where I roll secretly against the passive perception of the party member focusing on looking for traps and secret doors as they travel. Basically for every DC past 10, the secret gets a +1 to the role. So a DC 15 would have a +5 on a d20 against the character's passive perception. Because the chances of most secret doors, traps, and compartments beating a passive perception of 26 is low, I'll usually handwave the rolls. But for well hidden doors or compartments, I'll still roll. And I'm okay with the party never finding or knowing about missed secrets. This keeps them motivated to actively and carefully search in many promising areas.
Traveling without getting lost is typically 30 seconds at the table. You spend three days traveling from A to B, you have this many encounters along the way. The fun part is the encounters. Traveling? Who cares? There's nothing inherently interesting about travel in the game.

Even in a exploration game, it's revealing the next hex that's interesting. Ok, I'm lost, so, I stop revealing hexes. Well, I keep rolling dice until I can start doing the stuff that I actually want to do - revealing hexes - again.

The mind numbing tedium that DM's think is fun for players just baffles me to no end. I'm playing with a DM who thinks the way you do @Hriston - that every single thing you do in the game must be detailed out. It's tedious and boring. Just like being lost in real life.
This is where I like to use 4e-style group skill challenges. I don't know how closely the rules I use hew to 4e as I never played it. I got the idea from a Matt Coleville video and he claims they are based on 4e. Basically, I have set a DC. Each player describes how their character is contributing to the group's success and makes an appropriate skill check. Rather than a simple pass fail, I have a sliding scale of complications. Roll really high, you avoid any complications or make better than normal progress. The lower the role, the more or greater the complications will be. Complications can be getting lost, failing to avoid enemies, falling, getting sick, etc. Depending on the nature of the challenge.

What I like about this is that it can be zoomed out for a week long travel montage or in to an escape the collapsing dungeon montage.

Also, getting lost in real life is not always boring. It can be stressful and scary. It all depends on the stakes and dangers involved. Even when the stakes and dangers are very low, getting lost can be fun. One of life's pleasures is wandering around in a new city on a day that you have nothing scheduled, and purposefully getting lost and seeing where you end up.

Thing is the DM has prepped up a cool dungeon and put it on the other side of the Wild Wood.

Do we really want to spend the next 5 turns lost and wandering eastward through a series of random encounters that drain resources and cause fatigue or do we want to get to the cool dungeon the DM spent three days prepping?
or should DMs be required to have a fully planned sandbox just incase the players go the wrong direction? Or should we just move the dungeon, in which case the PCs were never actually lost were they?
The answer to that is "sometimes." I like to mix all of the approaches you allude to. Sometimes I just hand wave travel. "After 5 days of travel you arrive at..." Other times I have a fully fleshed out sandbox for the travel. Other times, it is skill checks and random encounters. All can be fun, especially if you mix things up.

For me, it has never been wilderness travel that has been the issue, it is mazes. Mazes are one of those tropes that my players and I find to be just tedious in actual play. I rarely run complex and large mazes straight. I have a variety of mini-games I'll use to run mazes. Sometimes just using the group skill check described above. I also have a virtual card deck that I use in my VTT. I also have a VTT map which has a progress bar (e.g. from -10 to +10). I line up all the tokens at zero, in the middle. Then based on group skill checks they can increase their groups progress or decrease it. Various flavorful encounters and traps can be encountered along the way. This last example is particularly useful for mazes that have high stakes like poison air or danger of being too late to stop something from happening.

Ironically, unlike the OP I think that the getting-lost experience is actually better emulated in video games (the ones where there's some sort of open-ish world and no waypoints or navigation map at least). The first-person perspective, and the bewilderment as you go through all the identical corridors and wonder where the hell you are, is much closer to the real-life experience than you can get around a table with a top-down map. Plus, video game mazes CAN do tricks like sneakily teleporting you places or rearranging the walls behind you, which are much harder to pull off in a tabletop or VTT game.
Heck, even video games that have navigation mini-maps, etc. I find I get lost. I feel that I must just have very poor perception when playing video games, I can't tell you the number of times I keep missing some obvious passage that I know must be there because I just don't see it.

Regarding your sneaky teleporting, I do this in Foundry. You can set it up where when a token is moved into a certain area it is auto moved to another area. While the players will generally know that they have been teleported, they don't necessarily know if it was just to bring them to the next area of the map or not. It depends on how the map is laid out and how the DM describes what the players see. Works very well with a serious of small maps.
 

Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
Thing is the DM has prepped up a cool dungeon and put it on the other side of the Wild Wood.

Do we really want to spend the next 5 turns lost and wandering eastward through a series of random encounters that drain resources and cause fatigue or do we want to get to the cool dungeon the DM spent three days prepping?
or should DMs be required to have a fully planned sandbox just incase the players go the wrong direction? Or should we just move the dungeon, in which case the PCs were never actually lost were they?
Those are good questions that should be answered by the individual group. If it turns out the players don't find the possibility of becoming lost in the wilderness to be interesting, then the answer for that group to the OP's question ought to be "no, we don't allow the party to get lost." There's nothing wrong with skipping over that kind of complication and getting right to whatever the group decides is "the good stuff".
 

Hussar

Legend
Those are good questions that should be answered by the individual group. If it turns out the players don't find the possibility of becoming lost in the wilderness to be interesting, then the answer for that group to the OP's question ought to be "no, we don't allow the party to get lost." There's nothing wrong with skipping over that kind of complication and getting right to whatever the group decides is "the good stuff".

This I 100% agree with.
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
Again, nothing that's been said here points to why being lost is fun or enjoyable. At best it's boring and at worst it's tedious. Just like being lost in real life. "I continue wandering around randomly" is about as far as fun or enjoyable as it gets. There's no actual tension here, since, eventually, we'll stop being lost. There's nothing to interact with since the only things we find will be entirely random and, at the end of the day, pointless.
If your point here is "random and pointless things suck," okay, I'm on board. But there's nothing forcing a DM to make getting lost boring, tedious, random, etc. The tension comes from the change in plan: PCs lose food, water, time, or even relations (most likely with the navigator) when they get lost. There's everything to interact with, since the PCs haven't left the game world - only the path.

It's on the player (or less likely, the character) if the solution to getting lost is "I continue wandering around randomly."

So... 'no' because hit locations aren't a thing?
Not in D&D. But critical hits and (reaching zero) hit points are!
 

EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
If your point here is "random and pointless things suck," okay, I'm on board. But there's nothing forcing a DM to make getting lost boring, tedious, random, etc.
Other than just...what being lost is. Because when you are genuinely lost, you know neither where you are nor how to get to where you do know where you are.

The tension comes from the change in plan: PCs lose food, water, time, or even relations (most likely with the navigator) when they get lost. There's everything to interact with, since the PCs haven't left the game world - only the path.
Are they lost or are they merely not where they wish to be? Because you seem to be using the former to refer to the latter here.

It's on the player (or less likely, the character) if the solution to getting lost is "I continue wandering around randomly."
There's a huge difference between "re-orienteering because we aren't where we intended/expected to be" and "we literally have no idea where we are." The former is an identifiable thing you can respond to. The latter...you wander around until the DM (or dice etc.) decides you are allowed to know where you are and can start solving the problem of getting to where you need to be.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Detect secret doors: 3e
Find the way: most likely a slightly misremembered name, because find the path has existed since OD&D.

So...yeah. Not new to 5e. Also, if detect secret doors doesn't meet whatever pedigree standards you decide upon after having already heard about it, true seeing has been around since AD&D.
Locate Person was the other one I'd never seen before.

And True Sight, while old, is also fairly high level by 1e standards (remember, in 1e it wasn't common for characters to do much adventuring once they hit name level i.e. about 9th or so, and True Sight is a 5th-level spell meaning you need to be 9th to cast it - and Find the Path is 6th level, thus needing a 12th-level caster).

The spells existed, sure, but didn't see the light of day very often. Flip side: Locate Object, being both lower-level and available to both Mages and Clerics, was a staple.
 

Clint_L

Hero
What "narrative" value, exactly? I don't see much story behind "oh, we got lost" in and of itself. Getting lost while trying to get somewhere is a complication for the story of "trying to get somewhere." Getting lost while exploring something...is again a complication on the story "exploring." Being lost doesn't really do anything; it's a seasoning, not a dish, and one that can easily be used to excess.
I never said it was the main course. But I've been cooking without much of that seasoning, to extend your metaphor. And it's a nice seasoning. Adds spice! I could do better, is all I'm saying. Been getting a bit bland.

Edit: I like threads like this. They make me reflect on my own game and how it could be improved.
 

Hriston

Dungeon Master of Middle-earth
But, there's nothing to "figure out". The only reason I'm lost is because of a random die roll. The only way to stop being lost is to roll another random die roll.
I just wanted to address this because I think you've got the wrong impression about how the procedure I'm using actually works.

The party is in a hex surrounded by six other hexes, and I generally set things up so it takes four hours to get from the center of one hex to the center of another. When the players say the party is travelling in some direction for a distance that will take them into an adjacent hex, that action declaration gets resolved in a four-hour turn. If the difficulty of the terrain versus the skill of the navigator warrants a check to resolve the action because it's uncertain whether the party will arrive in the intended hex at the end of the four hours, it's resolved as a passive Survival check which I run as a contest against a roll I make for the terrain. Modifiers apply to the navigator's score for travel pace and whether the party has an accurate map or can see the sun or stars. The terrain might roll with advantage or disadvantage depending on the difficulty or sky conditions if at open sea with no land in sight, but that's the only modifier on the terrain side of the contest, so the target number for success can't be more than 20. However, if the navigator's passive score fails to hit the target number, a die is rolled to determine into which hex the party inadvertently travels. Depending on the terrain type, this result might include a hex that was previously traveled through, so that after the four hours of travel, I would describe that there are features of the area that are recognizable as already having been seen, and they would know right away they had gone in the wrong direction and would have the opportunity to reverse or correct course by choosing a new direction on the next turn. If it's a new hex they had not previously traversed, I would describe whatever terrain or other features are in that hex.

Eventually, either through a discrepancy in their map or by encountering or not encountering some expected/unexpected feature of the landscape, the party might discover they became lost at some point, and by consulting their map they can attempt to travel in a direction that will hopefully take them to the desired destination. By manipulating certain factors under their control such as travelling at a slower pace or simply waiting until sky conditions are more advantageous for successful navigation, the party can boost the navigator's passive score for the best chance of going in the right direction. If the score is 20, they have complete certainty of moving in the desired direction. They can also improve their chances by choosing easier types of terrain through which to travel.
 

Pentallion

Explorer
I'm trying to think of the last time as a player or a DM I've actually been lost during a game. I'm sure it's happened, but, it's never been memorable enough to matter. Being lost in an RPG is generally a couple of die rolls and you're unlost, regardless of edition.

Why and how is getting lost fun for the table?
Well, if all the players and the GM have had enough to drink........

The Melnibonean sorcerers employed a scout from the Weeping Wastes to take them through the Forest of Troos and into Ilmiora. He had one job and he got lost. Fearing the Melnibonean's wrath, he did not tell them he was lost. When they came unexpectedly upon the Orgjen city of Org he asked the guards who stood atop the wooden walls a simple question (the deeply canopied forest having blocked his view of the sun) "Which way is east?" He rolled 00 - a fumble - on his speak Orgjen and inadvertently said, "You mother is a beast."
The orgjen guard opened fire with his crossbow and hit the scout.
The Melniboneans, none of whom spoke Orgjen, did not take well to the scout being attacked. What followed was a night of all out massacre of the Orgjens as the Melniboneans unleashed all their elemental and demonic powers upon the hapless folk.
In the end of the game session, quite some time later, a terrified priest of Org crawled out from the ruins of his temple and asked, "What do you want?"
At this point, we all looked at each other blankly, very buzzed, and asked "Why did we just spend our whole night wiping out this town?"
At which point the scout (Which was me, by the way) suddenly remembered, "Oh yeah!" I exclaimed, "Which way is east?"
This time, he said it properly and we continued on our way.
 

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