Worlds of Design: The Problem with Magimarts

I dislike magic item stores. Here's why.

Picture courtesy of Pixabay.​

Magic items are a part of every fantasy role-playing game, and wherever player characters meet, someone will want to buy or sell such items. What the players do among themselves is their business, in most cases; but when non-player characters (NPC) are involved the GM must know where magic items come from, how rare they are, and how hard it is to produce them. [Quoting myself from 40+ years ago]

Magimart: Still a Bad Idea​

I don't like the idea of "Magimarts" -- something like a bookstore or small department store, often with a public storefront, where adventurers can come and purchase (or sell) magic items. I said as much over 40 years ago in an article titled “Magimart: Buying and Selling Magic Items” in White Dwarf magazine. My point then still stands: at least for me and in my games, magic-selling stores don’t make sense.

They don’t make sense from a design point of view, as they may unbalance a campaign or cause power-creep. From an adventure point of view such stores partly eliminates the need to quest for specific powerful magic items. From a realistic point of view they would only provide targets for those who are happy to steal.

The Design Point of View​

From a game design point of view, how experience points, gold, and magic fit together makes a big difference. For example, if you get experience points for selling a magic item (even to NPCs), as well as for the gold you get, adventurers will sell magic items more often. If adventurers acquire scads of treasure and have nothing (such as taxes or “training”) to significantly reduce their fortunes, then big-time magic items are going to cost an awful lot of money, but some will be bought. If gold is in short supply (as you’d expect in anything approaching a real world) then anyone with a whole lot of gold might be able to buy big-time magic items.

Long campaigns need a way for magic items to change ownership, other than theft. As an RPG player I like to trade magic items to other characters in return for other magic items. But there are no “magic stores.” Usability is a big part of it: if my magic user has a magic sword that a fighter wants, he might trade me an item that I could use as a magic user. (Some campaigns allocate found magic items only to characters who can use them. We just dice for selecting the things (a sort of draft) and let trading sort it out, much simpler and less likely to lead to argument about who can use/who needs what.)

The Adventure Point of Views​

Will magic stores promote enjoyable adventuring? It depends on the style of play, but for players primarily interested in challenging adventures, they may not want to be able to go into a somehow-invulnerable magic store and buy or trade for what they want.

Magic-selling stores remind me of the question “why do dungeons exist”. A common excuse (not reason) is “some mad (and very powerful) wizard made it.” Yeah, sure. Excuses for magic-selling stores need to be even wilder than that!

I think of magic-item trading and selling amongst characters as a kind of secretive black market. Yes, it may happen, but each transaction is fraught with opportunities for deceit. Perhaps like a black market for stolen diamonds? This is not something you’re likely to do out in the open, nor on a regular mass basis.

The Realistic Point of View​

“Why do you rob banks?” the thief is asked. “’Cause that’s where the money is.”

Realistically, what do you think will happen if someone maintains a location containing magic items on a regular basis? Magimarts are a major flashpoint in the the dichotomy between believability (given initial assumptions of magic and spell-casting) and "Rule of Cool" ("if it's cool, it's OK").

In most campaigns, magic items will be quite rare. Or magic items that do commonplace things (such as a magic self-heating cast iron pan) may be common but the items that are useful in conflict will be rare. After all, if combat-useful magic items are commonplace, why would anyone take the risk of going into a “dungeon” full of dangers to find some? (Would dungeon-delving become purely a non-magical treasure-hunting activity if magic items are commonplace?)

And for the villains, magimarts seem like an easy score. If someone is kind enough to gather a lot of magic items in a convenient, known place, why not steal those rather than go to a lot of time and effort, risk and chance, to explore dungeons and ruins for items? There may be lots of money there as well!

When Magimarts Make Sense​

If your campaign is one where magic is very common, then magic shops may make sense - though only for common stuff, not for rare/powerful items. And magic-selling stores can provide reasons for adventures:

• Find the kidnapped proprietor who is the only one who can access all that magic.
• Be the guards for a magic store.
• Chase down the crooks who stole some or all of the magic from the store.

Maybe a clever proprietor has figured out a way to make the items accessible only to him or her. But some spells let a caster take over the mind of the victim, and can use the victim to access the items. And if someone is so powerful that he or she can protect a magic store against those who want to raid it, won't they likely have better/more interesting things to do with their time? (As an aside, my wife points out that a powerful character might gather a collection of magic items in the same way that a rich person might gather a collection of artworks. But these won’t be available to “the public” in most cases. Still just as some people rob art museums, some might rob magic collections.)

Of course, any kind of magic trading offers lots of opportunities for deception. You might find out that the sword you bought has a curse, or that the potion isn’t what it’s supposed to be. Many GMs ignore this kind of opportunity and let players buy and sell items at standard prices without possibility of being bilked. Fair enough, it’s not part of the core adventure/story purposes of RPGs. And magic stores are a cheap way for a GM to allow trade in magic items.

Your Turn: What part do magic-selling stores play in your games?

 

[SkidAce]

instead they would find Frogreaver, a +1, +1 defending sword that gave +10 to jump and balance checks. ...

Yoink!

 

[Distracted DM]

When "magic item" runs the gamut from a 50 gp potion of healing (only the cheapest gemstones and art objects are less valuable) to a legendary holy avenger, it seems even less realistic to me (as an economist) that there is no trade in "magic items" at all.

I think a more sensible question may be: what type of "magic items" would be commonly traded? How valuable? What rarity? Would it make a difference if the item is permanent or consumable? Where would such trade take place?

What type of "magic items" might be sold at occasional auctions?
What type of "magic items" might brokers be able to help you find?
What type of "magic items" might you be able to commission the creation?
What type of "magic items" might you need to personally seek out the owner and negotiate to purchase, trade, or earn?
What type of "magic items" might you have no option but to go on adventures to find?

It seems to me that it would be a more interesting and realistic world if the answers to all these questions were different.

Note to self...

But yeah, on one hand I don't like magic item shops. On the other hand, I do have consumables like potions and scrolls available at relevant shops, and uncommon equipment like wondrous items, weapons, etc. available for sale at markets in big towns, ports, etc. Kind of like random stuff you'll find at a flea market.
Because players want magic items, and they have gold to spend- and many of them don't care about building strongholds.

 

[Kurotowa]

Thinking about it, perhaps there's another question to ask. For the people who object to PCs buying the magic items that they want, is your problem with the "buying" part or with the "that they want" part? Because I can partly understand that if a DM is used to having a tight grip on what magic items enter the campaign via tailoring the available loot, giving the players free rein to target exactly the items they want might be a shock.

I'm not sure I would agree that it's a problem, since as a player I definitely have an ideal image of what my character is like and don't want to be entirely at the mercy of random loot tables or pre-made adventures not tailored for my PC. But I can also see the desire not to turn everything into browsing Amazon for exactly the ideal item. So really I think I'd advocate from what some of us have described where the players are given choices from a limited list offered by the DM, often heavy on the unique or quirky items rather than bog standard ones.

 

[Von Ether]

Just like the equipment list during character creation, I think the issue is the assumptions of a lot of GMs have that these lists are shopping catalogues. They don't (or don't want to) realize both equipment and magic items can be curated to deliver a more unique setting.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think that it's unfortunate that scroll availability gets lumped in so deeply with magic items now since there is one class heavily dependant on their availability and they can change things so drastically for others

 

[Tonguez]

Thinking about it, perhaps there's another question to ask. For the people who object to PCs buying the magic items that they want, is your problem with the "buying" part or with the "that they want" part? Because I can partly understand that if a DM is used to having a tight grip on what magic items enter the campaign via tailoring the available loot, giving the players free rein to target exactly the items they want might be a shock.

I'm not sure I would agree that it's a problem, since as a player I definitely have an ideal image of what my character is like and don't want to be entirely at the mercy of random loot tables or pre-made adventures not tailored for my PC. But I can also see the desire not to turn everything into browsing Amazon for exactly the ideal item. So really I think I'd advocate from what some of us have described where the players are given choices from a limited list offered by the DM, often heavy on the unique or quirky items rather than bog standard ones.

I dont mind players wanting a particular item, but if its powerful and unique I want that to be part of their story not just some junk they picked up at a garage sale I want it to be a gift from their mentor, or an heirloom handed down from their ancestors, anf of course junk at a garage sale might be the start of a story, but PCs should slowly detect the item isnt what it appears and through research and use discover that its actually the lost Spear of Krom and the key to the Lost Tomb of the Regent Eternal.

 

[Kurotowa]

I dont mind players wanting a particular item, but if its powerful and unique I want that to be part of their story not just some junk they picked up at a garage sale I want it to be a gift from their mentor, or an heirloom handed down from their ancestors, anf of course junk at a garage sale might be the start of a story, but PCs should slowly detect the item isnt what it appears and through research and use discover that its actually the lost Spear of Krom and the key to the Lost Tomb of the Regent Eternal.

All well and good if the DM is on the ball about introducing powerful signature weapons for their martial PCs that fit both their fighting style and the campaign's story. That has... often not been the case IME. Either the DM throws in items without really understanding the PC's build and why they won't want to use it, or they get caught up in the story and what "makes sense" and I'm hoarding coins to buy an upgrade cause I'm still using a random +1 sword I got off a bandit.

 

[RainOnTheSun]

but if magic items are just seen as tools, or just lower end of magic items, common, uncommon and rare, while keeping very rare, epic legendary and artifacts in somewhat exclusive category, then you can just see a common sword and +2 sword as variant of modern day comparison of old semi-rusty M14 that your granddad used in Vietnam vs. a brand new M4 with laser dot, thermal sight, 40mm grenade launcher and match grade ammo.

This is why comparing magic item shops to jewelry stores or banks doesn't really work for me. A magic item shop, at least one of the sort that PCs would want to use, isn't just a collection of extremely expensive things, it's a collection of extremely expensive things used for fighting, and we generally call that a military base. If there are 50 magic swords lying around town, 45 of them have probably found their way into the hands of the local baron, who has given them to 45 of his best men. And a large part of how he stays the local baron is probably having 45 trained warriors with magic swords. Anyone you can buy significant magic items from (where "significant" varies depending on where you are) almost has to be one of the most powerful and dangerous figures around. Sure, you can try to steal from them. But if you slip up you'll have a target on your back for the rest of your life.

 

[amethal]

The other is that it turns even mid- to high-level characters into penny pinchers. So, you just returned to Waterdeep after trudging through the Mire of Dead Men for a month, culminating in killing a dragon that was bossing around a tribe of lizard folk, and now you're laden with gold and gems and stuff... and instead of spending the next tenday living it up and getting it on with all the fine ladies/gentlemen at the Purple Palace, you're going to find a cheap inn, because who wants to spend money on wine and orgies when you could put that money toward the "upgrade my sword to +3" fund? Bah!

Your players are extravagant spendthrifts compared to mine. Why pay for a cheap inn, when you can just use a rope trick and get yourself 0.00001% closer to upgrading that cloak of resistance?

So in my campaigns I handwave subsistence costs as well. PCs don't pay for inns, meals or other mundane expenses. It makes things a lot easier.

I'd be very happy to run a "realistic, every gp counts" sort of game if my players wanted one, but Pathfinder really isn't suited for that sort of approach.

 

[Stormonu]

The big issue I have with that is that the +3 Sword is the obviously correct choice in most campaigns, which generally leads to it really being just one choice.

With 5E no longer being dependent on the Christmas Tree, I no long have just generic +X weapons. They will always get a perk and possibly a flaw to make them unique.

For example, a Flamberge (longsword) +1 named The Pride of Kas. When held aloft, streams of blood seem to be drawn into the blade and the murmurs of praise can be heard fleetingly in its owner's ear.

Mechanically, it's just a +1 weapon, but with my playstyle I get to have a lot of RP fun with the wielder. I can use the murmurs to pass secret information or try to goad the player. Perhaps based on the foes the wielder faces, the streams of blood might strengthen or change color. Maybe, in the presence of undead the blood turns black, for example. In the presence of an enemy wizard, the streams might glow brightly "in anger".

I sometimes also do this to other items as well.
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Which brings up another point. Invariably, someone starts arguing for "mass-produced" magical items, and I have come up with an argument against such a thing. For one, most of the guilds and mages are rarely open about the secrets of creation to those things that make them money. Guilds often swear apprentices to secrecy not to reveal the tricks of their trade and any training manuals tends to be written in code. Some use geas or other magics to enforce such oaths, and the more powerful ones aren't afraid to higher assassins, thugs, bounty hunters or extraplanar creatures to enforce their secrecy or hunt down rivals or renegades. Some have the ears of Kings and the likes through patents contracts or even magical bindings, legally allowing them to quash others from engaging in competitive trade. Likewise, wizards and other spellcasters are loathe to divulge the secrets of their trade, especially should the be used against them. Religions frown on sharing mystical secrets or relics with those not of the congregation and have been known to brand those who disobey as heritics, pariahs or worse. Some factions even restrict the creation of items to particular ranks, locations or methods, frowning on or admonishing those unwilling to follow tradition.

Lastly, there is the items themselves. There's limited ability to mass-produce items of even regular quality. Most of the people in my campaign world look down on mass-produced items as "junk" or vastly inferior to hand-crafted items. This is backed up by the fact that mass-produced items have no "soul" to them, and enchantments fail to simply bond with them. Mass-produced items simply cannot be enchanted; only one that is hand-made that the artisan has poured their attention (their "soul") into it are capable of being enchanted.

As always, PCs tend to be exceptions - but they very well may be fighting against bureaucracy, tradition or prejudices if they try to distribute (or acquire) items of power through illegal means. In short, it can be used as fodder for an adventure and keep the PCs from blowing up the economy with their antics.