Worlds of Design: The Problem with Magimarts

I dislike magic item stores. Here's why.

Picture courtesy of Pixabay.​

Magic items are a part of every fantasy role-playing game, and wherever player characters meet, someone will want to buy or sell such items. What the players do among themselves is their business, in most cases; but when non-player characters (NPC) are involved the GM must know where magic items come from, how rare they are, and how hard it is to produce them. [Quoting myself from 40+ years ago]

Magimart: Still a Bad Idea​

I don't like the idea of "Magimarts" -- something like a bookstore or small department store, often with a public storefront, where adventurers can come and purchase (or sell) magic items. I said as much over 40 years ago in an article titled “Magimart: Buying and Selling Magic Items” in White Dwarf magazine. My point then still stands: at least for me and in my games, magic-selling stores don’t make sense.

They don’t make sense from a design point of view, as they may unbalance a campaign or cause power-creep. From an adventure point of view such stores partly eliminates the need to quest for specific powerful magic items. From a realistic point of view they would only provide targets for those who are happy to steal.

The Design Point of View​

From a game design point of view, how experience points, gold, and magic fit together makes a big difference. For example, if you get experience points for selling a magic item (even to NPCs), as well as for the gold you get, adventurers will sell magic items more often. If adventurers acquire scads of treasure and have nothing (such as taxes or “training”) to significantly reduce their fortunes, then big-time magic items are going to cost an awful lot of money, but some will be bought. If gold is in short supply (as you’d expect in anything approaching a real world) then anyone with a whole lot of gold might be able to buy big-time magic items.

Long campaigns need a way for magic items to change ownership, other than theft. As an RPG player I like to trade magic items to other characters in return for other magic items. But there are no “magic stores.” Usability is a big part of it: if my magic user has a magic sword that a fighter wants, he might trade me an item that I could use as a magic user. (Some campaigns allocate found magic items only to characters who can use them. We just dice for selecting the things (a sort of draft) and let trading sort it out, much simpler and less likely to lead to argument about who can use/who needs what.)

The Adventure Point of Views​

Will magic stores promote enjoyable adventuring? It depends on the style of play, but for players primarily interested in challenging adventures, they may not want to be able to go into a somehow-invulnerable magic store and buy or trade for what they want.

Magic-selling stores remind me of the question “why do dungeons exist”. A common excuse (not reason) is “some mad (and very powerful) wizard made it.” Yeah, sure. Excuses for magic-selling stores need to be even wilder than that!

I think of magic-item trading and selling amongst characters as a kind of secretive black market. Yes, it may happen, but each transaction is fraught with opportunities for deceit. Perhaps like a black market for stolen diamonds? This is not something you’re likely to do out in the open, nor on a regular mass basis.

The Realistic Point of View​

“Why do you rob banks?” the thief is asked. “’Cause that’s where the money is.”

Realistically, what do you think will happen if someone maintains a location containing magic items on a regular basis? Magimarts are a major flashpoint in the the dichotomy between believability (given initial assumptions of magic and spell-casting) and "Rule of Cool" ("if it's cool, it's OK").

In most campaigns, magic items will be quite rare. Or magic items that do commonplace things (such as a magic self-heating cast iron pan) may be common but the items that are useful in conflict will be rare. After all, if combat-useful magic items are commonplace, why would anyone take the risk of going into a “dungeon” full of dangers to find some? (Would dungeon-delving become purely a non-magical treasure-hunting activity if magic items are commonplace?)

And for the villains, magimarts seem like an easy score. If someone is kind enough to gather a lot of magic items in a convenient, known place, why not steal those rather than go to a lot of time and effort, risk and chance, to explore dungeons and ruins for items? There may be lots of money there as well!

When Magimarts Make Sense​

If your campaign is one where magic is very common, then magic shops may make sense - though only for common stuff, not for rare/powerful items. And magic-selling stores can provide reasons for adventures:

• Find the kidnapped proprietor who is the only one who can access all that magic.
• Be the guards for a magic store.
• Chase down the crooks who stole some or all of the magic from the store.

Maybe a clever proprietor has figured out a way to make the items accessible only to him or her. But some spells let a caster take over the mind of the victim, and can use the victim to access the items. And if someone is so powerful that he or she can protect a magic store against those who want to raid it, won't they likely have better/more interesting things to do with their time? (As an aside, my wife points out that a powerful character might gather a collection of magic items in the same way that a rich person might gather a collection of artworks. But these won’t be available to “the public” in most cases. Still just as some people rob art museums, some might rob magic collections.)

Of course, any kind of magic trading offers lots of opportunities for deception. You might find out that the sword you bought has a curse, or that the potion isn’t what it’s supposed to be. Many GMs ignore this kind of opportunity and let players buy and sell items at standard prices without possibility of being bilked. Fair enough, it’s not part of the core adventure/story purposes of RPGs. And magic stores are a cheap way for a GM to allow trade in magic items.

Your Turn: What part do magic-selling stores play in your games?

 

[Kurotowa]

Tangent: it took me a while to design this Flame Lance inspired by Moorcock's Hawkmoon series and they traded it away. Some things I make quickly, but this took some effort to try and balance but make appealing/useful. That was a blow. I'd thought someone would use it and bank inspiration for a d20 reroll if they rolled Overheat (we do the common reroll house-rule for inspiration). Nope. Sold it off!

Lances are a pretty specialized weapon. Not only do they have Reach, you have to use that Reach because you have Disadvantage to attacks against adjacent targets. Using a Lance requires both a specific build and a party composition to facilitate it. Don't have other melee to stand behind? Already invested in GWM? Went for a Dex TWF build? Or maybe you're the party's de facto tank, holding the front line with a sword and shield? A lance, even a powerful one, is useless to you. Or even if they can use it, maybe the player is imagining the character as a master swordsman and doesn't want to transition to being a pikeman.

This is exactly what I meant about throwing powerful weapons at the party without understanding the character builds or imagined styles. You need to talk to the players about where they'd like their PC to go and what sort of signature weapon they feel would compliment them. Then maybe you don't give them exactly what they asked for, but you still know what they're looking for and what the dealbreakers are.

 

[Distracted DM]

Lances are a pretty specialized weapon. Not only do they have Reach, you have to use that Reach because you have Disadvantage to attacks against adjacent targets. Using a Lance requires both a specific build and a party composition to facilitate it. Don't have other melee to stand behind? Already invested in GWM? Went for a Dex TWF build? Or maybe you're the party's de facto tank, holding the front line with a sword and shield? A lance, even a powerful one, is useless to you. Or even if they can use it, maybe the player is imagining the character as a master swordsman and doesn't want to transition to being a pikeman.

This is exactly what I meant about throwing powerful weapons at the party without understanding the character builds or imagined styles. You need to talk to the players about where they'd like their PC to go and what sort of signature weapon they feel would compliment them. Then maybe you don't give them exactly what they asked for, but you still know what they're looking for and what the dealbreakers are.

Considering there's a dex rogue, a str paladin, a str fighter, and a dex blood hunter in that group... Plus a hexblade/sorcerer? I didn't think this was something that'd just get passed on.

Note that this isn't a "signature weapon" for a specific PC. I just imagined someone would use it, since there are plenty of first and second rank characters in the group. A rogue could be snipe sneak-attacking with a 6d8 fire damage shot.

But hey, maybe it's a Principal Seymour "it's the children who are wrong" moment.

 

[aco175]

I agree with some of the earlier posts about 5e being very different than earlier editions in the way that magic is treated or needed. Bad guys do not need to be given +weapons in order to hopefully hit a PC. They can be given other abilities or feats that allow the DM to keep magic more rare.

 

[Distracted DM]

I agree with some of the earlier posts about 5e being very different than earlier editions in the way that magic is treated or needed. Bad guys do not need to be given +weapons in order to hopefully hit a PC. They can be given other abilities or feats that allow the DM to keep magic more rare.

Yes, but on the other hand 5e provides no good ways for characters to spend their treasure. Not without 3pp or house rules, anyway. So players are going to expect that they can buy what they want, in this case magic items.

 

[Kurotowa]

Note that this isn't a "signature weapon" for a specific PC. I just imagined someone would use it, since there are plenty of first and second rank characters in the group. A rogue could be snipe sneak-attacking with a 6d8 fire damage shot.

Not easily, they can't. A Rogue would have to give up an entire turn to charge up the weapon first, and if they're higher level that's absolutely not a net gain to make a 6d8 attack the next turn. Not to mention that your item description doesn't specify what sort of ranged attack it is; the player may have very reasonably assumed it wasn't something that qualified for Sneak Attack, since many things don't. And if it DOES count as a weapon attack, the Rogue still can't Sneak Attack because they're not proficient in Lances so they have Disadvantage.

Look at the party you describe. Half of them are going to turn down anything that isn't a Finesse weapon immediately, any Str character that's invested in Fighting Style: Great Weapons and the Great Weapon Mastery feat is going to hard pass on a 1H weapon, and any Str character who considers themselves the front line tank is going to pass on a weapon that gives them disadvantage for attacking adjacent targets. It's no wonder they sold it!

I think many people in the "Forever DM" category don't appreciate just how locked in to specific weapons most martial PCs are. Modern editions of the game require and reward picking your specialty, and it's very punishing to abandon that. And that's not even touching on player preference. The player who's running a Barbarian because they love big crits is going to pick a greataxe over a greatsword every day of the week.

Sit down with your players. Talk to them about what sort of weapons their character would find useful, and what style of weapon they'd find fun. Then figure out a way to give it to them, even if you mess around with the small details a bit.

 

[aco175]

Yes, but on the other hand 5e provides no good ways for characters to spend their treasure. Not without 3pp or house rules, anyway. So players are going to expect that they can buy what they want, in this case magic items.

I do not have a problem with 5e PCs being allowed to have a way to spend gold to get an item. I tend to have a lot of what others are saying with smaller items and consumables being available and larger items taking time or or special circumstance to acquire.

My main point was that 5e does not need the extra magic floating around so the PCs do not gather the (20) +1 swords from the fight the DM put in to try and damage the PCs .

 

[Distracted DM]

I do not have a problem with 5e PCs being allowed to have a way to spend gold to get an item. I tend to have a lot of what others are saying with smaller items and consumables being available and larger items taking time or or special circumstance to acquire.

My main point was that 5e does not need the extra magic floating around so the PCs do not gather the (20) +1 swords from the fight the DM put in to try and damage the PCs .

Ahhh gotcha. Yes, good point

 

[Voadam]

Item availability for me is tied to a desired setting flavor.

3e Forgotten Realms Red Wizard enclaves brokering magic items are fantastic magic marts that make sense to me there.

4e inherent bonus sword and sorcery no or rare magic items is an awesome different flavor.

I have done various different things in my games.

Magical cities often have a market of some kind. White Witch filled Irresen, Ptolus with its magical factions.

Ravenloft towns often had nothing for sale.

 

[O-Castitatis-Lilium]

I don't have a magic item mart in the sense that players can go and just buy whatever they want, but there is usually one person in a city that would know more about magic items than others. If the local weapon shop ends up in possession of like a +1 or +2 somehow, usually they take it to the magic guy who will give them money for it to try and recoup their costs of purchasing it in the first place. Sure, the weaponsmith would know that a magic longsword looks better made and what not, but they might not know what magic is actually on it. Sure, they would know what they are willing to purchase it for, but they might not know what to price it for after. With this they can take it to the magic guy, at least get back what they spent on it and leave it with the guy. that way their shop doesn't become a target for robberies over a sword that might be being tracked or even has a powerful enchantment on it.At least at the magic item vendor, they would have certain spells and such set up for that type of protection. Now, these places MIGHT have a storefront depending on how massive the city is, but others might just be a person in a normal looking ohouse in a random part of the city that players could possibly get info on. The small houses that don't have much, maybe like 5 or 6 items total, usually these are common or uncommon items at most. Usually I try to tailor loot to my players and what they are playing, and also what they might need later on, but there are some occasions where one of them just wants to take a look around and see what might be available to help them out now that could also help someone later on.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Considering there's a dex rogue, a str paladin, a str fighter, and a dex blood hunter in that group... Plus a hexblade/sorcerer? I didn't think this was something that'd just get passed on.

Note that this isn't a "signature weapon" for a specific PC. I just imagined someone would use it, since there are plenty of first and second rank characters in the group. A rogue could be snipe sneak-attacking with a 6d8 fire damage shot.

But hey, maybe it's a Principal Seymour "it's the children who are wrong" moment.

If everyone has attuned items they like, this would have to be better than one of those.

It's a bomb. Most players will be averse to spending an Attunement slot and expending multiple actions on an item that can kill them and/or their allies. So this thing has to be awesome.

The rogue can't use martial so it's a no-go.

The hexblade can't make it their hex weapon if they aren't mounted (only works on 1handed weapons). And is this better than eldritch blast? Eldritch blast will never blow up in their face. Pass.

The Fighter & Paladin have to use it 2-handed on foot (meaning no shields) or be mounted all the time. Then there's the weird reach/nonadjacent issue. That's a pain to deal with as enemies can just get up close to them and the weapon is useless. Plus, again, it's a bomb.

If the save DC was high it could be an oversized wand of fireballs. But the save DC is 15, so it's not a slam dunk. Is it this worth an attunement slot or should the PCs hock this and buy a half dozen fire-breath potions?