Worshipping an ideal.

[SableWyvern]

Deadguy: I'll definitely file that idea away with my far too large list of "Things that I'd Really Like to Include in a Campaign One Day."

Also, your post is a timely reminder for me about the relationship of the gods to the PCs IMC. I've just introduced some religious elements into the story, and I must remember that this is not to be a god-driven campaign.

On the that note, though, I don't think that the PCs as pawns of gods, to some degree, is an intrinsically bad thing - although it may well be overdone.

 

[Deadguy]

The Role of Gods

Also, your post is a timely reminder for me about the relationship of the gods to the PCs IMC. I've just introduced some religious elements into the story, and I must remember that this is not to be a god-driven campaign.

I think that that was always one of my worries for the fantasy environment, that little by little 'the Gods' become the driving force for the campaign. A little 'divine intervention' here and there grows to become a divine mandate for action, and slowly the PCs are sucked into being the forced servitors of gods that they haven't 'bought into'.

I think it's because gods are so easy to use as justification for any plot or story that you care to throw at the party. Want them to visit a certain place, perform a certain act, rescue someone or the like, and the 'advice' (read 'order') of a god is simple 'excuse' to make it happen. Heck, if they don't accept more subtle signs then the manifestation of a divine servitor should get the PCs on the right track!

Gods are the ultimate deus ex machina device (!), and as such they are overused and abused by DMs keen on controlling the flow of the campaign.

On the that note, though, I don't think that the PCs as pawns of gods, to some degree, is an intrinsically bad thing - although it may well be overdone.

I appreciate that the above remarks make me look like I hate the role of gods in a fantasy setting. I think that you can reasonably do stories that involve them, of course. I do think that you need to:

• discuss with the players whether they want this sort of thing in the campaign; they may be unhappy about having their freedom curtailed in a 'Hercules' or 'Xena' type fashion.
• monitor yourself as DM that you aren't using the 'pawn of a god' trope as simply an excuse to force the PCs to play the adventures that you want to write, with no chance to escape the plot.
• that you don't in the process totally abrogate any Cleric character's natural special relationship with their god or gods, thereby effectively eliminating their special role as devout members of the faithful (when all the PCs, every week, are receiving direct orders from on high, what's a Cleric other than a Band-Aid machine?!)
  [/list=a]
  
  Gods can be a great part of a fantasy campaign if they're handled well. But if they are trotted out regularly as the 'explanation' for every adventure, then they just turn into a type of 'big bully' monster!
  
  Apologies to Ysgarran if I have hijacked his thread.

 

[hong]

Another good idea of worshipping an ideal, IMHO, is the Ultima games (4+). The Avatar exemplifies the Eight Virtues (Honesty, Compassion, Valor, Justice, Sacrifice, Honor, Spirituality, & Humility), derived from the Three Principles (Truth, Love, & Courage). A very viable belief system for a cleric which doesn't include the presence of a deity.

Indeed. One of the nice features of that belief system is that it's tailor-made for the kick-butt-and-take-names style of play that usually characterises D&D. It says right in the manual that you're supposed to kill evil monsters and take their stuff. Sure as hell beats jumping through metaphysical hoops to justify your bloodlust.