Worst 3.5 publishers?

[Gundark]

For me the company that's really been atrocious this year has been Wizards of the Coast.

I mean, The Book of Exalted Deeds, Draconomicon, and Underdark, those are among the worst books on my gaming shelf. Just look at those books' authors--James Wyatt, Andy Collins, Skip Williams, Bruce Cordell (et. al.). That alone should tell you how bad they are.

WotC's artwork has been bothering me lately. Sam Wood and Tom Lockwood--I mean, who would choose them to illustrate their books? And I'm really bothered by WotC's full color books, it's beginning to hurt my eyes.

WotC also seem to have a real poor understanding of 3.5e mechanics. Their PrCs and feats are soooooo out of wack. I far prefer the balence of those found in 3rd party products.

Speaking of Feats, PrCs, and other crunch, I feel that WotC have really steered to far in that direction at the expense of flavor. I mean, WotC is the only company putting out books stuffed with PrCs, feats, spells, etc. Third party publishers are doing otherwise--they have realized that nobody wants such products.

Finally, I'm a bit worried about WotC's bindings. I've heard that other d20 publishers have been good enough to replace a book if the binding falls apart. However, none of my WotC books have had binding problems, so I don't know if WotC will replace one if needed. This really keeps me awake at night.

Sorry...maybe I'm slow but is this sarcasm??? Yeah I know....

 

[Turjan]

Sorry...maybe I'm slow but is this sarcasm??? Yeah I know....

Hehe, I liked that one . Though I don't support the general bash of 3rd party publishers, I agree with johnsemlak that most of the stuff WotC puts out is at least well produced - though not always exciting .

 

[Darrin Drader]

But I am also very critical of crappy material and practices. My biggest problem with 3.5 is that WOTC's very first announcement about it was an outright lie. I don't like liars. I definitely don't like to give money to people who lie to me. That is why I have bought nothing 3.5 that would go into WOTC's pocketbook. Any purchase I have made was from someone's personal stuff. As it is I have only purchased two 3.5 products, and none of them are the core books.

OK, so, if the first announcement of 3.5 is an outright lie, lets look at the announcement and figure out where that lie supposedly is.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20021206x

2003 Revisions to the Dungeons & Dragons
Roleplaying Game Core Rulebooks

Wizards of the Coast, Inc. has some great news to share with our loyal Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game fans. Since the release of the latest edition of the D&D core rulebooks in 2000, we have listened hard to the reviews, accolades, criticism, and other comments that our fans have contributed about these titles. The past two years have been filled with consumer feedback that has provided us with a wealth of information for making our books richer in depth and gameplay -- in short, more opportunity for every fan to enjoy the game a little more.

If this part is a lie, that would imply that Wizards of the Coast doesn't listen to its customers. I can vouch for them that the voices of those who would suggest improvements are listened to. When trends begin to show themselves, or are revealed through gameplay, such as the issue with the harm spell, people know about it.

After gathering this invaluable input from the fans and putting it together with our own observations, it was clear that some targeted revisions in the three core rulebooks would go a long way toward creating the requested improvements in the D&D roleplayer’s gaming experience. Therefore, we have incorporated fan comments and suggestions into upcoming revised editions of the Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, and Monster Manual.

Again, I'm having a hard time finding the lie in this statement. Based on my observations, this is 100% true.

While the overall rules system remains intact, these targeted changes have been designed to help with character play, convey consistency, and improve overall game flow.

The updated core rulebooks will be on store shelves in July 2003, and we will be releasing more details in the months leading up to release. Please watch Dragon Magazine and the Wizards of the Coast, Inc. website for more information.

Again, all true. Gameplay is improved in many ways by fixing broken mechanics and including new information (see my earlier post). The books were available in July. Many of the changes were available in Dragon Magazine and on the website.

We would like to thank our fans for giving us such reliable and valuable input, and we firmly believe that with your continued help and support, Wizards of the Coast, Inc. will continue to provide the foremost roleplaying game experience available.

Sincere gratitude for the hundred or so emails a day from fans of the game. Still not a lie.

Sincerely,

The Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Team

This press release was written by the business team.

So, I would very much appreciate it if you could point out the untruth of any of the above statements.

I can understand that you feel you don't need the revision because you've already fixed the bugs in your game. That's perfectly understandable. Its the mark of a smart gamer who is capable of tweaking the system to fit their style. Regardless, I can tell you with the utmost confidence that there is a small army of gamers out there who won't rest unless they've gotten the "official" interpretation of a rule. This unfortunately shows that some people are unable to move beyond the ink on the page or use the rule of common sense.

The decision to not buy something because you don't need it is much different than the assertion that the mean, evil, money grubbing corporation has lied to you. That is why I question the 3.5 backlash.

 

[Emiricol]

The 3.5 backlash is overblown. There was /way/ more backlash against 3.0 than 3.5. Both in volume of complaining and in terms that matter.

3.5 is an evolution. 3.0 was radically different. You can't please everyone, and I am glad WotC isn't trying to. Having said that - most of my collection is 3rd party stuff.

 

[Nightfall]

Don't appreciate you people picking on Darrin. The guy's work his butt off since D&D 3rd edition came out. He deserves a little more respect for his thoughts AND opinions. That is all. Sagespeakout.

 

[Wormwood]

I can tell you with the utmost confidence that there is a small army of gamers out there who won't rest unless they've gotten the "official" interpretation of a rule. This unfortunately shows that some people are unable to move beyond the ink on the page or use the rule of common sense.

As a footsoldier in that army, I can attest to your statement.

That said, I don't look at my reliance on 'official' products as my unfortunate inability to apply common sense.

Rather, I believe that having an 'official' ruling makes it easier to communicate with other gamers who aren't privy to my house rules---not to mention that official rulings were probably more comprehensively playtested than my ad hoc tinkering.

Official sources provide a standardized baseline from which to modify our games. That's a good thing.

3.5 rocks in this regard.

 

[Treebore]

Well Darrin,

You and I appear to have different views of the word targeted and whether or not the over-all rules remained intact. In later announcements they also assured us that our 3.0 books would be fully compatible with 3.5. I don't see that either.

Just to be clear, I am not picking on Darrin. I respect his opinion as well as his work. I am in no way attempting to "pick on him". Just to disagree with some of his opinions/views, just like he does with mine. We are adults and can obviously disagree with each other in a friendly manner.

My bottom line beef, can you play 3.5 with 3.0 books? No. So they are in no way compatible. All the needless spell and skill name changes put aside, there is no comaptibility other than they both use the d20 mechanic. That is apparently how WOTC wants to define compatible, targeted, and rules-intact changes, but it isn't my definition. So I have exercised my right to not buy product put out by a company I consider to be a liar.

Darrin,

You consider those to be truthful statements, fine. You also have professional reasons to have 3.5 rules. I don't. On either count. I don't participate in Cons or other "official" games. I have absolutely no reason to buy anything from WOTC. If I ever do I will wait until I can buy it second hand.

Maybe 4th editon will change my opinion about WOTC. Maybe that edition will truly be needed. Maybe all the name changes and slight modifications of skills, feats, and spells will actually be needed to better the game. Maybe the miniatures rules will be necessary to improve the game. Maybe all the other rules modifications and total changes will make for a better game.

3.5 is not a revision, it is a total rewrite. How do I define this as being the case? Because I cannot sit down at a game where everyone else is using 3.5 and i am using 3.0 and know what is going on without reading their version of so many skills, spells, feats, and class progression rules. That is not compatible. Nor is it targeted when you have an easier time finding changes then you do finding what stayed the same. That is wide spread changes. Changes, not revisions. They are very different words with very different meanings.

This is also my opinion. My opinion effects no one. My lack of purchasing WOTC product isn't even a blip on their radar. I am cool with not buying 3.5. I am also cool with everyone who does. It is their money and their freedom of choice.

Besides, by not buying WOTC product I will have plenty of money buying all the Necromancer product I want as well as the Ravenloft material and any other publisher material I find I like. So I am happy, just like many of you are happy to buy 3.5. Freedom of choice is a wonderful thing.

 

[diaglo]

I do wonder if anyone could buy all of the TSR D&D products released during that time.

i did then and i do now. as i did prior to 2edADnD

With regard to the original question on this thread: I find it nearly impossible to get non-WotC d20 Products.

which has been a complaint of mine.

you will note my original post to this thread was just an observation. i wasn't saying WotC was the worst publisher IMHO. only that as i have read reviews, rants, etc...it has been noted by consumers (whether they are fringe or not) to be the one most likely attacked. my follow up comment to Holy Bovine just noted how quick others were to either defend or attack 3.11ed for Workgroups.

on the best publishers thread i actually noted WotC. i do have some taste.

 

[Arnwyn]

Oh yeah, welcome to my ignore list.

That's IT! Fun and games are OVER!

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

My bottom line beef, can you play 3.5 with 3.0 books? No.

Sorry, but since my answer to that question is "Yes", then your statement holds weight only as opinion and not as fact. I still use my 3.0 Books all the TIME for my 3.5 games...the tweaks needed are so minor its just not funny, and in the end...all you REALLY need to worry about is DR. Beyond that...who cares if that Ranger is different? Maybe he's had special training...etc etc.

'tis all a matter of opinion and I've never understood why people have screamed that 3.5 is such a horrible and incompatible system...because if you want it to be, its perfectly compatible.

i do have some taste.

You do? Wow...you've degenerated over time.