Worth of an animal companion...

[evilbob]

All of those are good points. I guess in my opinion having another character soaking up HP damage is less of a boon and more of a drag on resources; especially considering that even those very nice animals mentioned above will never actually hit anything at high levels. It's like having a moving, extra HP storage box with bad-to-ok AC that will constantly drain your cure spells. On one hand, it's nice because it's another thing they're hitting that's not YOU, but on the other hand, why not direct those creatures toward attacking your tank, who probably has the AC to keep many of those blows from landing? In other words: it's just not a very efficient HP soak.

 

[Pinotage]

All of those are good points. I guess in my opinion having another character soaking up HP damage is less of a boon and more of a drag on resources; especially considering that even those very nice animals mentioned above will never actually hit anything at high levels. It's like having a moving, extra HP storage box with bad-to-ok AC that will constantly drain your cure spells. On one hand, it's nice because it's another thing they're hitting that's not YOU, but on the other hand, why not direct those creatures toward attacking your tank, who probably has the AC to keep many of those blows from landing? In other words: it's just not a very efficient HP soak.

There's a collar of healing in MIC that is quite cheap and handy for healing an animal companion. I believe there's also a 5th level spell for druids in Spell Compendium that allows you to cast the spell heal on an animal companion. You are generally right, though, in that by the time you hit higher than say, 15th level, the animal companion becomes a bit weak. By 20th level, having a 14 HD animal companion is not really something that's going to last long on the battlefield, unless well enhanced with magic to boost attack and saving throws. Damage is always going to be low, unless you then invest in higher HD animal companions such as a dire tiger, which at 20th PC level has 18 HD.

With minimal effort from the druid you can make it viable. Barkskin and Greater Magic Fang are effectively permanent at high levels due to their duration. But let's face it, a druid has wild shape and very good spells in addition to the animal companion, so the class already has loads going for it.

Pinotage

 

[eamon]

All of those are good points. I guess in my opinion having another character soaking up HP damage is less of a boon and more of a drag on resources; especially considering that even those very nice animals mentioned above will never actually hit anything at high levels. It's like having a moving, extra HP storage box with bad-to-ok AC that will constantly drain your cure spells. On one hand, it's nice because it's another thing they're hitting that's not YOU, but on the other hand, why not direct those creatures toward attacking your tank, who probably has the AC to keep many of those blows from landing? In other words: it's just not a very efficient HP soak.

At level 15, a dire bear companion has 14 HD, an a +21 attack dealing 2d4+11 damage.

With Greater Magic Fang, that's +3 (+4 at level sixteen) i.e. +24 (2d4+14). Improved natural attack would mean it's 2d6+14. With animal growth, that's then +27 (3d6+18). With Bull strength +29 (3d6+20). At this point, he'll hit every CR 15 creature in the MM except on a natural 1, except for the marut, which has AC 34.

By level 18, he'd have +2 HD (here +2 bab) and the magic fang would be 1 better, and, having 16HD, he'd just reach another str increase (to 34)
that's +33(3d6+22), buffed as above. A CR 20 Balor has AC 35, a pit fiend AC 40. He'll hit them, all right. Damage reduction would be a problem, so he won't do much damage - but that's OK.

And the only spells we've used so far are Greater Magic Fang, Animal Growth (free if you're growing summons anyhow), and Bull strength.

Then there's the advantage of flanking, always handy to have. And, you could turn into a dire bear yourself, when wild shaping, potentially sowing confusion amongst the enemy (which bear is the more dangerous?) You could stick an empowered summon natures ally VI in an 8th level slot, and have another five bears for extra confusion. Your animal growth will grow all of them at that point.

And I haven't even looked at high-level animal companion buffs. There might be quite a few quite powerful ones, especially with Companion Spellbond allowing Personal Range spells to be cast on the animal companion...

 

[eamon]

Can't help myself, but boy, there are nasty spell's of range person out there to share:
(mostly SC)

Plant body grants a few plant-immunities, Thornskin makes grappling really nasty since you need to succeed on DC 10+1/2 caster level + wis fort save or be poisoned when grappling, very nice for a grappler. Sirene's Grace grants underwater movement/attack and +4 dex bonus.

Supernasty: Bite of the Werebear +16 enh. bonus to strength, +2 enh to dex, +8 enh. to constitution, +7 enh. natural armor.

Energy Immunity, Fire's of purity, are also potentially shareable.

But man, +16 str... brrr....

I'm pretty sure you can do some pretty nasty stuff with your animal companion if you try ;-)

 

[evilbob]

At level 15, a dire bear companion has 14 HD, an a +21 attack dealing 2d4+11 damage.

With Greater Magic Fang, that's +3 (+4 at level sixteen) i.e. +24 (2d4+14). Improved natural attack would mean it's 2d6+14. With animal growth, that's then +27 (3d6+18). With Bull strength +29 (3d6+20). At this point, he'll hit every CR 15 creature in the MM except on a natural 1, except for the marut, which has AC 34...

But by comparison your 16th level fighter - who just got his 4th attack - will be doing 5x that damage each round. At least. Heck, our 12th level fighter could average 150+ damage a round, and by level 16 I'm sure he'd be well into the 200s. Max damage of 30-something means: why are you even trying? Plus, the fighter has twice the HP and probably twice the AC... Not to mention that - with the exception of buff spells that DO last all day - you're really not going to buff the animal. There are way too many spells that are more useful at that point. Honestly; I've seen it happen. Why spend a round casting bull's strength when you can cast any 7th level druid spell?

Don't get me wrong: the animal can certainly try very well and if you spent all your time/feats/resources/spells on making it better, it would be possible to have a very decent little hitter. The problem is that no matter what you do, you'll never achieve what you had at level 1: someone who could replace your main tank. At upper levels - and there's no question once you pass level 16 - the animal will simply never be as good as your main tank, even if you spent everything you had on him; and you honestly won't, since at that point you've got access to 8th level spells and powerful shapeshifting that can do 10x what your animal can do. And at that point, I say your companion is without value as a battlefield deploy.

 

[Pinotage]

We should start an animal companions vs fighter thread and see which one can generate the best melee fighter!

Pinotage

 

[Jack99]

But by comparison your 16th level fighter - who just got his 4th attack - will be doing 5x that damage each round. At least. Heck, our 12th level fighter could average 150+ damage a round, and by level 16 I'm sure he'd be well into the 200s. Max damage of 30-something means: why are you even trying? Plus, the fighter has twice the HP and probably twice the AC... Not to mention that - with the exception of buff spells that DO last all day - you're really not going to buff the animal. There are way too many spells that are more useful at that point. Honestly; I've seen it happen. Why spend a round casting bull's strength when you can cast any 7th level druid spell?

Don't get me wrong: the animal can certainly try very well and if you spent all your time/feats/resources/spells on making it better, it would be possible to have a very decent little hitter. The problem is that no matter what you do, you'll never achieve what you had at level 1: someone who could replace your main tank. At upper levels - and there's no question once you pass level 16 - the animal will simply never be as good as your main tank, even if you spent everything you had on him; and you honestly won't, since at that point you've got access to 8th level spells and powerful shapeshifting that can do 10x what your animal can do. And at that point, I say your companion is without value as a battlefield deploy.

But +45 grapple can be quite effective against certain monsters

Either, thanks all for the very interesting feedback, it has certain given some food for thought, but I have decided to go ahead anyway, and give the druid in my campaign the option to switch out his companion with a modified version of the Beast Spirit in Races of Eberron.

Cheers