D&D 4E WotC better fix Wildshape in 4E...

[Inconsequenti-AL]

You're right, it is a fair bit of work. IMO, there are a number of things that would require similar levels of preparation: Summon Natures Ally and Summon Monster spring to mind right away. I don't want to stop my game while someone stats up the effects of their abilities. I say that if someone wants to use those sort of things regularly, then they should be prepared to write everything down before the game.

One player couldn't be bothered with all the recalculations of Wildshaping for his summoner druid - in the end opted for the alternate wildshape rules from Unearthed Arcana (I think) - those are well worth checking out - much less bookeeping.

Shilsen, and better hope no-one plays around with Shapeshift.

 

[LazerPointer]

Nobody in my group has ever played a Druid. Surprisingly, iwe've never had that problem.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Save DCs? I'm not sure that's generally necessary. Examples, please? For animals, that is.

If there aren't such things, big wow, there's more than enough other mods that need to be done when playing a wildshaped druid. I know that I'll never let a new player take druid ever again (at least until WotC fixes this problem).

 

[Brother MacLaren]

Save DCs? I'm not sure that's generally necessary. Examples, please? For animals, that is.

Hm. I suppose it's necessary if you're using Con buffs or something, but otherwise...

Snake poison. (And, for the elemental forms, Whirlwind, Vortex, and Burn DC's.)
The oddity of how HD works is the real problem here. Is DC 10+1/2 level+mods? Or 10+1/2 racial HD (for a human, 0)+mods? Or 10+1/2 form's usual HD+mods?

 

[Stalker0]

I think eventually (made in 4E) the choice of the animal will be flavor...and the crunch will be handled from a list, similar to astral constructs.

Basically, you pick stat increases and decreases, a few special abilities, and then just be in the form you want (dm descretion is certain forms couldn't have certain abilities, like a bear wiht a poisonous bite for example)

 

[KnowTheToe]

I love druids, and IMO it is simple to do. You will usually turn into the same animals over and over. Just stat these out ahead of time. With the SRD it is easy as pie. Again, IMO, it is no different than spellcasters knowing how their spells work. Nothing frustrates me more than someone casting a spell and then having to look up all of the details which puts the game on hold. Th

 

[Andre]

If a spreadsheet is the answer then the problem is atrociously severe.

It is and it is. I've argued for some time now that the biggest problem with 3.x is that it really needs several strong electronic aids to play well (assuming a group really tries to follow the RAW), and those electronic aids, for the most part, don't exist. Just look at the problems with eTools.

If/when 4E comes out, it needs to have electronic (read: computer) support built in. Or be much, much simpler.

You're right, it is a fair bit of work. IMO, there are a number of things that would require similar levels of preparation: Summon Natures Ally and Summon Monster spring to mind right away. I don't want to stop my game while someone stats up the effects of their abilities. I say that if someone wants to use those sort of things regularly, then they should be prepared to write everything down before the game.

I'm currently running a druid/wizard/mystic theurge with Augment Summoning. I've spent hours creating a spreadsheet to generate the correct stats for his creatures. A real pain.

 

[Darkness]

If a spreadsheet is the answer then the problem is atrociously severe.

Well, you can also use paper and a pencil if you prefer re-doing all calculations whenever your relevant statistics change. I don't.

Also, I was thinking about using lots of animal forms. If you don't do that, the problem is not "atrociously severe." Though given you can use lots of animal forms, being prepared for doing just that is a good idea AFAIC.

 

[kolikeos]

what the druid in my party does is just pick one animal and always turn into that same animal ontil he has a better choice when leveling up.
if not in battle, there is no need to calculate abilities so he can turn to anything he likes.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I don't know guys, I just do the calculations on the fly. It isn't really that hard.

Bookmark the animals section fo the Monster Manual and quickly flip there during somebody else's turn the round you are going to Wildshape.

Replace your physical stats with those of the animal.

Now if you've memorised the attack routines of each animal (for instance, bear is claw, claw bite), you can immediately generate attack bonuses (claw is your usual base attack bonus - size penalty + new str bonus, and bite is the same -5 [unless you have a magical carryover]) .

AC is just Dex + Natural - Size Penalty unless you have a magic effect that carries over.

For saves: Fort goes up (or down) by Change in Con / 2 and Ref goes up (or down) by Change in Dex / 2. Leave the Monster Manual open to that page if you plan on using other abilities like an Extraordinary Special Attack or Racial Skill Bonus. I don't see how this is a problem. Its much trickier to remember minute details from mutliple spell descriptions.

Then again, I often build NPCs in my head on the fly when the PCs go somewhere unexpected, so I guess that could skew my view on Wildshaping.