D&D 4E WotC better fix Wildshape in 4E...

[Jdvn1]

But you'd need to keep track of all those various spells regardless of Wild Shape. The changes I listed are apart from magical effects. Those effects are not the fault of the Wild Shape.

A lot of those are just for Wildshape. My Dwarf doesn't have Natural Armor. The enhancements to Natural Armor don't apply to my Dwarf form. Armor of the Crocodile only applies when Wildshaped. And I don't have to figure out what stays on my body and what doesn't.

It's much easier when not Wildshaped.

 

[Jdvn1]

And don't get me started on damage. Warshaper increases the base damage as if it were a creature one larger. Well, that means I have to flip to the back of the MM to find that little chart. And if it's not there (like it wasn't for one or two of my animals) then I have to refer to the PHB. That's two books to find out what my base damage die is.

 

[shilsen]

This situation is just part and parcel of a player having to know his character's abilities. The standing rule at my table is that if you're going to be wildshaping, polymorphing, etc., you should have your resultant stat block at hand, otherwise you can't transform into it (unless doing so temporarily in a situation where stats won't be needed). Similarly, summoner characters need to have stats for the creatures that they'll summon. And the cleric who likes to use buffs needs to have the stat changes at hand. And the fighter needs to have the stats for when he decides to use combat expertise to its fullest, fight defensively and make a trip attack. All it takes is a few minutes of preparation beforehand and there's no reason it should be a problem in-game. It hasn't been for me.

 

[fusangite]

I'll weigh in with Shilsen here. I currently play a druid who constantly wild shapes. I have the following character sheets in my binder:
1. My druid in human form
2. My druid in polar bear form *
3. My druid's animal companion *
4. My druid's former animal companion now awakened cohort (I have Leadership)
5. The augmented grizzly bear I normally summon with SNA IV (I have Augment summoning) *
6. The augmented hippogriffs I normally summon with SNA II (I have Augment Summoning) *

* the asterisked sheets also have notes for what happens to the creature's skills, attacks, abilities and saves when I cast Animal Growth (I have Natural Spell)

Yes. These sheets are a bit of work to maintain, especially when I level. But they are not a huge problem. Once you've got the sheets written up, it's not a whole lot of trouble to maintain and update them. I'm happy to put in some extra time when I level or get a new buff spell because of the phenomenal benefits all these abilities deliver. Also, for a guy who usually GMs, running a druid keeps me on my toes by keeping me meaningfully engaged with questions of system.

 

[kolikeos]

"As far as I'm concerned."

thank you for answering my unasked question for i was about to ask just that

 

[MerricB]

Yes, wildshaping into animals can be a pain to calculate.

On the other hand, it keeps various forms relevant.

If you just used the animal's physical stats (including Base Atk, etc), then there would be a clear progression - 5th level druids would turn into animal A, 6th level druids into animal B, 10th level into animal F, etc.

By having their stats (especially attack) change as the druid becomes more powerful, then more than one form can be chosen.

In truth, there aren't all that many forms that are attractive in any case. Realistically, how familiar is your temperate druid with the lion and rhinocerous? Not at all, and thus you can't wildshape into them.

As you adventure into different lands, more forms will become available, of course...

Cheers!

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

It's not a question of can the record-keeping be done, it's a question of how much of a pain in the arse it is. Especially for new players who are not familiar with the ins and out of the rules. It's also not a question of having stat cards available, b/c they don't take into account all the wildshaping modifications that need to be done. Our druid copies of the SRD for the stats of all the creatures that can be turned into, but they all still require modifying for use with wildshaping.

I realize why WotC made wildshaping the way they did, but they need to have a streamlined version whenever the next rules set comes out. Maybe it requires limiting the number or type of creatures a druid can turn in to, I dunno. All I know is that wildshaping is a royal pain in the arse (and, yes, polymorphing is too).

 

[Sholari]

What's all this talk of 4th edition? I think the potential for something to get messed up in a new edition outweighs a couple minor tweaks like wildshape. Plus, I really wouldn't want to have to buy yet another edition of the same books and watch the player base fragment any further.

 

[Elephant]

"As far as I'm concerned."

Thanks. The contraction threw me.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Jdvn1: Even if you can cast more buffs while Wildshaped, such as Armour of the Crocodile, it is still the buffs and not the Wildshape itself that seem to be causing you trouble. As for size increases, its easy to memorise the smaller ones and here's a secret formula for dealing with damage dice of larger sizes (i.e. big amounts of d6s) when the size increases. Every two increases from a power of 2 brings the dice linearly up to the next power of 2 (for instance 2d6 becomes 3d6 becomes 4d6, or 4d6 becomes 6d6 becomes 8d6, or 8d6 becomes 12d6 becomes 16d6). If you'll believe it, it wasn't Wildshaping that caused me to discover this formula. It was actually an Expansioned (for two sizes) Psychic Warrior wielding an Oversized Greatsword and using Monkey Grip to deal 8d6 base damage.

Shilsen and Fusangite: I heartily agree. This is the best way to do it, although I allow PCs to get away with form shifts that they haven't documented occasionally because I know I can do the conversions quickly for them.

Ogrork: You are suggesting a new edition so that WotC can make a rule that forces people to limit their forms? This is somewhat ridiculous. The best thing that WotC can do is create a system, like the current system, that allows for the maximum amount of flexibility (i.e. all animals) and then leave it to the DM to place restrictions as they see fit. If you don't like it, just make a Houserule (how about 1 animal form per 2 levels? Fast and simple, and it doesn't force your restrictive opinion of Wildshape upon everyone. This would be a great aid for newbies, who you accurately point out cause problems with these rules, while allowing those in other campaigns across the world who can use the rules without a problem to go about their business).

Sholari: I am completely in agreement.