WOTC D20 Modern vs AEG Spycraft

[Dismas]

That is one of the silliest statements I have *ever* seen. It is in no way generic. It is 2002 USA with magic lurking in the shadows. The farther you get from that, the quicker the rules fall apart. Scale it back 30 years. The weapon "purchase" rules don't work any more; most of the restrictions are gone. Move it to Britain -- the weapon restrictions are much tougher. Remove magic, and you throw away much of the book.

I could list many more examples, but no one in this thread is listening to anyone else, so I'll stop here.

No, it ain't generic. Not by a long, long shot. Spycraft is much closer to generic and it is specifically spy genre!

d20 Modern has no default assumed setting, so there is no USA 2002 with magic lurking in the shadows, that is one of the sample campaign settings. I don't like the fact the all the sample campaign settings in the book are magic based, but it doesn't take up a large section. My personal favourite is GeneTech, which was left out for space reasons and ended up in Polyhedron.

Purchase rules are abstract, so you don't need to worry about changing costs.

Humans are the only PC's available, magic is hardly mentioned (restricted to a few chapters towards the end of the book). If you want I could do a 'pages that deal with magic' count to see how much gets thrown away.

I would like to see (in another thread perhaps), the rest of your examples.

 

[Terath Ninir]

I would like to see (in another thread perhaps), the rest of your examples.

I don't have time today, but I will post such a thread as soon as I can. I don't think that there was any malicious intent in any of the designer's minds, but d20 modern just isn't very useful for very many types of games.

 

[Ranger REG]

That is one of the silliest statements I have *ever* seen. It is in no way generic.

It's generic for modern-day genre roleplaying. It's just not universal. Sure, cultures and laws are different wherever you live on this gawd-awful planet, but at least most of the options (e.g., combat, death, dying, skills, etc.) are still there, even if it's illegal. Anyhoo, it's up to the GM.

 

[Vigilance]

That is one of the silliest statements I have *ever* seen. It is in no way generic. It is 2002 USA with magic lurking in the shadows. The farther you get from that, the quicker the rules fall apart. Scale it back 30 years. The weapon "purchase" rules don't work any more; most of the restrictions are gone. Move it to Britain -- the weapon restrictions are much tougher. Remove magic, and you throw away much of the book.

Well- at the risk of being a fence-straddler, let me address some of these statements. I have ran spycraft for a long time, and have designed 5 d20 Modern products from the ground up.

Spycraft: I think Spycraft is a solid straight-up d20 game.

Things I like about this game are: The way guns and armor work. Budget points. The feats. The fact that the round is two equally important half-rounds, not an attack action and a subordinate move action.

D20 Modern: I think d20 Modern is very versatile, based on the work I have done with it. It isnt tied to magic at all. Not a single of the five products I have designed used the base FX system, nor will the sixth currently in production, and the game holds up fine.

Things I like about d20 Modern: Allegiances. The Base Class-Advanced Class paradigm. The wealth system.

In short, I think both games are great examples of the finest my industry has to offer, and, while I think this discussion has a lot of merit, I don't think either game deserves anything bad to be said about it. You might prefer one or the other, but both games are rock solid designs.

I could list many more examples, but no one in this thread is listening to anyone else, so I'll stop here.

No, it ain't generic. Not by a long, long shot. Spycraft is much closer to generic and it is specifically spy genre!

My experiences with the game lead me to disagree. I have done an occult horror game, a martial arts game, a military game, all for the same game, all with no FX (the supposed system's baseline from whcih deviation leads to collapse) and I haven't changed a single rule.

I have added rules, but let me stress again- I have not found a single rule on the books incompatible with that wide range of genres.

To me that's a generic game, but also a very finely written one.

Chuck