D&D 5E WotC: Please do something about divine spells known bloat in 5e

[Agamon]

If I learned to do only one thing from splats over the years, it's to make anything in them both optional and rare. The cleric spells don't just pop up on their lists. They need to be found in dusty prayer books and ancient scrolls.

Splats are the freakin' bane of RPGs. They're like sugar; at first, they make things taste better, but too much makes the RPG fat and lethargic.

 

[skotothalamos]

I've long felt that Clerics should have a restricted number of spells they can choose from. What's the point of going to seminary school if you can just sit on your butt as a first-level Acolyte and wait? Apparently, everyone just suddenly has a bunch of new ideas about what sorts of things can be prayed for all at once. Shouldn't there be some time spent learning the proper supplications and sacrifices, which will necessarily limit which things you can ask for?

still playing 4e, though, so don't have to worry about it until I start a 5e game

 

[Evenglare]

If I learned to do only one thing from splats over the years, it's to make anything in them both optional and rare. The cleric spells don't just pop up on their lists. They need to be found in dusty prayer books and ancient scrolls.

Splats are the freakin' bane of RPGs. They're like sugar; at first, they make things taste better, but too much makes the RPG fat and lethargic.

I rather like this analogy

 

[crturley]

One of the ways our group is using to counter this is the rule that all clerics know the spells in the Basic rules or the Players Handbook to cast any other spells they have to find them in a prayer book or on a scroll. So any future books that come out does not automatically add the spells.

 

[Sadrik]

I think you can easily house rule this for your home game. Though when you play out at the game club or convention, clerics and druids will be in full force.

I also have an issue with this too btw. Even if you gave them a spells known list of double what the wizard has and a prayerbook like a wizard's spellbook I think it would be better.

It reminds me of the wizards INT issue in 1e/2e if you somehow raised your INT to (don't remember the number) it went from known spells 18 to known spells "all".

 

[Li Shenron]

I've never really had a problem with this regardless of edition. While i do think that the increasing number of offensive spells since 3.0 edition in 2000 has diluted the wizards' and sorcerer's main trick somewhat, you still don't have priests casting fireballs and power word kills and phantasmal killers, by and large. As long as there is still a relatively strong dividing line between clerics and wizards for spell themes, i still don't have any parties who are happy going adventuring without a wizard type in the mix.

Fireball, power word kill, phantasmal killer... maybe there's no option in 3e for those 3 spells specifically, but there are definitely core options for Clerics to shoot fire spells, save-or-die and similar effects.

Really, the fact that a Cleric can't ever cast a Fireball or a Power Word Kill preserves only a mockery of dividing. The problem with 3e splatbooks was rather that designers tended to add spells for every occasions and for every possible task to the Cleric list, often with the purpose of "covering" for some capability that the party was missing (like, "you don't have a Rogue? here's some clerical spells for finding traps, become undetectable, and stealing objects"), and perhaps justifying the inclusion by saying "well, a God is a God, can do anything so he can also bestow any sort of power to his Clerics".

The OP mentions a real problem, that is also a non-sense design choice when everyone else in the game does not have the luxury for cost-free (potentially) endless power increase, even if in practice it may seldom happen when you're gaming with reasonable players.

Still, it makes no sense that the designers are unaware of this, or are ignoring the issue, when it would actually be very easy to rule it once and for all. Swapping known spells, requiring paying a cost (like Wizards do when scribing), or just enforce a level-based limit on additional spells would all work, and there wouldn't even be need to playtest them.

 

[Olfan]

Splats are the freakin' bane of RPGs. They're like sugar; at first, they make things taste better, but too much makes the RPG fat and lethargic.

I agree. I tend to only play with the core three books and maybe an extra MM or two to diversify my monsters. Anything after that is a no go. They're just not worth the hassle and entitlement I find they bring.

That said, I like 5th enough that I'm considering allowing my players to try and convince me of the merits of any future books they want to add to the game.

 

[mips42]

DM'ing or playing, I've never really had an issue with it. I just pick the "top ten" spells that I'm interested in and I'm done.
I've been playing a Cleric in a 5e game and, at most, I have 8-10 spells to choose from on my list. I know that there are others if I *want* them but, For me, these 8-10 are my 'go-to' spells, the ones that feel like 'my cleric' and what that character wants to do. Others might choose differently and that is fine.
If you are the GM, you could have clerical 'schools' of teaching where you only have access to the spells in that/those schools.
You could limit by the clerical Domain. E.G. Clerics of the Life domain only have access to Echantments and Evocations.
You could state that the God followed only grants certain prayers.
Whatever you do, make sure the players understand and have fun.

 

[SkidAce]

One of the ways our group is using to counter this is the rule that all clerics know the spells in the Basic rules or the Players Handbook to cast any other spells they have to find them in a prayer book or on a scroll. So any future books that come out does not automatically add the spells.

This is how we have always done it also.

 

[Bacon Bits]

One of the ways our group is using to counter this is the rule that all clerics know the spells in the Basic rules or the Players Handbook to cast any other spells they have to find them in a prayer book or on a scroll. So any future books that come out does not automatically add the spells.

This is what we've usually done as well. Some exceptions get made if the party needs a spell or the spell makes complete sense for the character to have. There usually ends up about 5 spells that eventually we all assume you know. Lesser Vigor, for example, and Revivify.