WotC Responds!!!

[Bendris Noulg]

Now, what are the odds that that someone who has absolutely no interest in playing a game with rules for erotic play will buy a book on erotic fantasy, a book which includes doctored photographs of naked elves?

For the money, this individual is better off purchasing an issue of Heavy Metal, the latest Druuna release, a Corben graphic novel, a collection of Vallejo art, a Bakshi film, or one of many other sources of Erotic Fantasy that have been available for years.

 

[Cedric]

This post either presupposes that people should not consider this particular work improper or that no work should ever be considered improper.

...consider this particular work improper?

The only thing you know about this particular work is a press release blurb, a few informed by biased opinions, and a slew of rumors. Perhaps people should wait until they have seen the final product or at least a reasonable representation of it before declaiming it as blasphemous to the ideals of gaming.

As for considering no work to be improper...

Do you mean improper for print? or improper for use in my game?

I already consider this to be improper for use in my game, and as such will exercise my right as a consumer to not purchase this product.

But to consider it unfit for print is an entirely different matter. As long as the subject matter is not constrained from print by right of law, then I consider it to be fit for print. You can guarantee that someone will find the product valueable to them.

In summation, if you don't like it, don't buy it. But arguing against it's right to be in print is futile and goes against 30 years of effort to make the products we enjoy weekly accepted in the marketplace.

Cedric

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Perhaps people should wait until they have seen the final product or at least a reasonable representation of it before declaiming it as blasphemous to the ideals of gaming.

Link

 

[kenjib]

For the money, this individual is better off purchasing an issue of Heavy Metal, the latest Druuna release, a Corben graphic novel, a collection of Vallejo art, a Bakshi film, or one of many other sources of Erotic Fantasy that have been available for years.

Is purchase of those products and this book mutually exclusive? I don't see how this relates to my point.

 

[The Sigil]

Thanks for the link.

Four things struck me...

1.) Of COURSE there is going to be positve response at Andycollins.net - those that frequent the site are those who, by and large, share similar viewpoints. No surprises there.

2.) The content is said by the author to be "somewhere between Playboy and Penthouse." Well, since I would consider both of those immoral and offensive, based on the author's statements, I would consider the BoEF offensive... sight unseen (assuming I believe the author).

3.) There is contained within the thread a perfect example of what I mean when I talk about "ramming your ideology down my throat" - albeit a subtle one.

Gwendolyn F.M. Kestrel
"Unashamed."

The "unashamed" says to me, "THIS IS WHAT I THINK AND YOU HAVE TO BE OKAY WITH IT." Just drop the "unashamed," please (maybe I'm reading too much into it). Obviously, you're unashamed - you cam out and told us you're doing the project! Mentioning it in a sig is just trying to rub our noses in it if we disagree.

4.) For all those crying, "well, the naysayers said the BoVD would be the end of D&D and it wasn't!" No, it wasn't. But it was the start of a trend towards the inclusion of more and more material that I find objectionable in D&D, d20, and related products (Dragon and Dungeon Magazine). Whether you think the increase in "Mature Subject Matter" is a good thing or a bad thing, I doubt many people will argue that it is appearing with increasing frequency and in larger doses and covering even more topics.

No, D&D didn't go to hell in a handbasket with the BoVD... but it took a few steps down that road and with talk of "more Vile material" in Dragon and Dungeon, the BoEF and speculation that Valar will continue putting out materials like this, it seems like the train in that direction is only picking up steam. The journey of a thousand miles begins with but a single step... and in my opinion, we're more than a few steps down the road already. Again, that's my opinion.

--The Sigil

 

[EricNoah]

Just drop the "unashamed," please (maybe I'm reading too much into it).

I think maybe you are.

 

[Lol Roflmao]

I just....no.....no

I just can't see this book being used at my table.


[snipped by moderator]





Note from Eric: Please keep your comments tasteful.

 

[The Sigil]

I think maybe you are.

Okay. I'll retract that one, then.

--The Sigil

 

[Gothmog]

Originally posted by Cedric:

Gamers the world over unite to turn into the very people that the community as a whole has fought for almost thirty years. Perhaps before you condemn a new product, you should stop to look in the mirror. Do you see yourself looking back? Or do you see the very people this industry has silenced by marching forward into the 21st century and claiming legitimacy in a world that would reject them?

\

Amen, Cedric! You eloquently stated what has been bothering me so much about the uproar against this book and the BoVD. Absoltely true.

As for the question of what is proper/improper to print- as long as the book in question doesn't break any federal or state laws, pretty much anything has the right to be printed. And the BoEF isn't going to be nearly as extreme as some of the Black Dog stuff in the WW line- books in which mature subject matter was handled well and in a way that contributed, not detracted from the game.

Will I buy the BoEF? Probably not- the subject matter isn't something I find necessary to include in my game. Will I defend the right for it to exist, even though I may not personally agree with it? YES- to my grave.

Everyone needs to at least have the maturity to respect other people's opinions, and agree to disagree. It bears saying again since it is so true: IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT!!!

 

[kenjib]

Will I buy the BoEF? Probably not- the subject matter isn't something I find necessary to include in my game. Will I defend the right for it to exist, even though I may not personally agree with it? YES- to my grave.

Everyone needs to at least have the maturity to respect other people's opinions, and agree to disagree. It bears saying again since it is so true: IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT!!!

Has anyone said anything beyond this? I am actually curious as to who has. So far I haven't seen anyone make a statement any more harsh than this. The discussion I've read seems to revolve around various people explaining why they don't like it personally, even though they think it has every right to be printed and sold, and then people getting upset about the reasons that someone doesn't personally like it. Who, specifically, has said that this book has no right to be printed or sold? Maybe somebody has and I missed it, so I'm curious.