WotC Rodney and Mearls: custom NPCs so easy

[ruemere]

*rant warning*

3.xE creation of a shabby NPC, 13th level, spellcaster, using NPC gen: 1 second.
3.xE creation of a fully well designed NPC, 13th level, spellcaster, using PCgen: 5 minutes, tops.

The second example time is independent of whether I use books, add templates or fiddle with skills. Equipment included. Spells fully allocated.

4.0E creation of any of these NPCs, using fan-made software generators, highly unlikely.

This is digital age. Nowadays, I hardly ever use books to do an adventure. The printouts, handouts, NPCs... everything is sitting right at my fingertips. And if it does not, I ignore that - I have no need for rules, which, metaphorically speaking, sit down in a cellar, waiting for me to climb down the stairs and retrieve them.

The rules and game aids, to me at least, are supposed to be here for me. And, since 3.xE OGL of quite a few publishers allowed that, I could spent quality time making some electronic stuff to help others to have that kind of power, too.

Mr. Myers,
I appreciate your efforts. I really do. But please have a look at it from my point of view.
I have 10 hours a week tops, to spend on my hobby. The time spent on adventure making is the time I need to take away from gaming sessions.
I do like Eberron, I heartily appreciate old setting like Dark Sun or Planescape.

Still, my heart lies with third party settings, and, given the information released up to now on terms of 4E availability, I am worried that 4E books will be everything I will be allowed legally to use.

40 minutes for 19 level of NPCs does not seem much. 25 minutes, given books, is even less.
However, the pirate base raided by my players contained:
- 40+ pirate mooks
- 40+ pirate veterans
- 20 or so uber elite pirates
- a "ghost" ship of elven making manned by a crew of elite elven warriors and mages
- 24 or so Dirty Dozen-like scoundrels sent on a suicidal mission

and, of course, officers, heroes (players), leaders (leading characters who actions influence their factions).

Took me about 3-4 hours to complete, with statistics, island maps, and strategy trees (basically, simple assembly of goals and means for every leaders).

Used tools:
- PCgen (important characters and default elite stas and equipment),
- NPC gen (for basic mooks),
- SRD (electronic, search enabled, commercial version),
- vector drawing tool for general layouting and maps,
- OpenOffice (for pasting and typing it all up, and for producing PDF materials to be printed and used at the session).

Support books:
- almost nil, had to add 2 or 3 items from settings books to PCgen.

Of course, I cheated a bit. I have already thought things up, so I was merely putting them into some written form. I have also used some printed maps and pieces to construct combat areas (in case combat squares mattered).

So, the real question is... will that be possible to fit into similar time constraints under 4E? With support for 3rd party material?

Regards,
Rueemre

 

[Darrin Drader]

There are always electronic aids to speed things up. Heck, I used the NPC Designer software to instantly generate stats, and then I went through and modified the heck out of them to make the NPCs a little closer to what I was looking for, and then took the final result and used it for a number of WotC projects that were later published. That method probably saved me about 50% of the time it would normally take to generate NPCs. Of course one of the pains of publishing for 3.x was that you would have to show your math for everything. It may have been a pain, but it was essential so that an editor could go through and make sure that your math is right. Designers make math mistakes all the time, particularly with higher level NPCs.

So if they're saying that a publishable NPC can be done in 20 minutes with books handy, that is impressive. In fact, the prep time needed to create an adventure in 4E will likely be the #1 deciding factor on whether I end up liking it or not. If its as fast as they say, I think I may be willing to live with the other changes they're making to the system.

 

[Kraydak]

If you have a one-size-fits-all wizard that you use for all NPCs, good for you. But many DMs want unique NPCs for villians, scouring books for prestige classes or interesting multi-class possiblities, interesting feats, items and spells, which then usually requires double checking skills, BAB, Saves, etc. - especially with your list.

Apples and oranges. You cannot compare NPC generation time scouring the full 3.5 library with NPC generation time with the current 4e library. The correct comparison is with 3.5 core only. Any other comparison is inherently unfair.

4E will almost definetly save time with determining skills, and even the *types* of magic items are going to save time. There's only the "big 3" to look at for bonuses. No more checking multiple places on the character sheet due to stat boosters.

A lvl 11 NPC has 21k to burn. Thats it. You aren't buying anything cool there. 4e may have "ony" the big three. Well, until you get to upper teens as an NPC, you *only* have the big 6 in 3.5 (and frankly, probably not all of them, either). Given that I flat out don't believe that the "secondary" items will turn out to be optional (Flying Carpets disproves that for me), I doubt NPC gear generation will be significantly faster than 3.5's.

Skill-wise, in 3.5 you count up class+race+int skills to cap. Easy. If its a wizard, you do need to track if you bumped int up, but that just adds another skill at non-max ranks. I'm willing to bet a 4e wizard has *more* feat+skill choices to make than a 3.5e one in the mid levels (more feats, fewer skills). I also expect that the core books will have more options to choose from (again, more relevant feats, fewer skills).

My guess is there has also been some significant changes to templates - probably more "just add these powers" and no changing creature type, hit dice, or recalculating skill, saves, bab, etc based on the new type.

Also, the "new math" means you don't have to stop and think about different progressions of BAB or Saves for monster hit dice (now levels) vs. the added class levels. They all have the same progression, so you can do it in your head.

In 3.5, the *only* thing that affects class progressions is turning undead. Even then, all you change is your HD size. You might gain type traits, or more specific template-granted abilities, but none of the Core ones, at least, are at all complicated.

I can calculate save/BaB progressions in my head. They might be easier in 4e, but a fighter won't have the same bonus as a wizard, which means you'll still need to know all the class bonuses... So the advantage over 3.5's nice tables is questionable.

 

[mattcolville]

I just want to know how long it takes to use the online generator we've been promised[1]. I don't want to track every +1 and synergy bonus; computers are better at that anyway.




[1]I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here and assuming that the generator is actually flexible enough to make a templated Gnoll warlock using only the core rules.

Based on the stuff I've read, I suspect there won't be an online character generator/editor of the sort we're hoping for. I think we're going to get something more akin to a form-fillable PDF. I.e. there's a place for all your stats, but you could put "L" under strength and it wouldn't know any better. No data validation.

 

[Spatula]

Then of course, there's the notion that publication quality NPCs have to include all their powers fully described. Which means Mike had to write out descriptions of all their powers. Similar to having to write up a description of every spell description for a 3E wizard.

That's what cut & paste is for, no? Though I find it highly doubtful a published adventure with 11th lvl NPCs needs to include the description of every spell & ability when those things are in the rule books.

40 minutes for two mid-level NPCs is pretty terrible. And that's from one of the designers of the system, mind you.

 

[Irda Ranger]

There are always electronic aids to speed things up.

You're presuming the 4E license / other legal stuff allows for this. Personally, I've got bad feelings about that.

 

[Darrin Drader]

You're presuming the 4E license / other legal stuff allows for this. Personally, I've got bad feelings about that.

If the OGL doesn't allow it, someone will make a fan created spreadsheet, or NPC generator, and simply put it out there for all to use. WotC will likely not do anything to stomp it out, as it will lack a lot of the polish of their big budget widget, and that will be that. I'm fairly certain that we won't be lacking for software to support the game.

 

[rkanodia]

You're presuming the 4E license / other legal stuff allows for this. Personally, I've got bad feelings about that.

If the 'official' tool is an ActiveX widget, and not an AJAX or standalone app, I will bash my head against the wall. But then, it sounds like all of the online tools are going to require Virus Explorer.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Skill-wise, in 3.5 you count up class+race+int skills to cap. Easy. If its a wizard, you do need to track if you bumped int up, but that just adds another skill at non-max ranks.

you don´t need max ranks to be effective in some skills, actually it is 1 or 5 or max.

Also I wish that if int raises somehow, it should be applied retroactively so that there is no need to notice when you raised it. Anything which requires you to make extra notes on attributes or skills should be eliminated.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Based on the stuff I've read, I suspect there won't be an online character generator/editor of the sort we're hoping for. I think we're going to get something more akin to a form-fillable PDF. I.e. there's a place for all your stats, but you could put "L" under strength and it wouldn't know any better. No data validation.

Not true as far as I can tell. The character generator that comes with DDI is specifically an application, not a PDF. It also is network enabled as it gets all its data from the internet including the entire list of feats available in all books(and their descriptions if you activated the book). It is graphical, the screenshots of it looks like it has a nice interface.

It hasn't been said one way or another, but I get the impression that it calculates things for you, though it appears there isn't much to "calculate" as part of your character in 4e. I'm guessing that pretty much all the features that were in E-Tools are available in the new character generator. Plus it has tie ins to the Character Vault allowing you to store all your characters on DDI in order to be able to access them anywhere you have an internet connection(like a laptop at your game table).