WotC setting search winner - Eberron

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

Just out of curiosity, NickTheLemming, could you list for us the reasons why trains absolutely could not be medieval technology? I have a suspicion that most or all of them will not apply to the trains in this setting.

If they are powered by magic, then they don't need steam engines and the necessary post-medieval technology to build them.

If they are levitating by magic, then they don't need rails and the necessary large-scale steel refining and manufacturing processes to create them.

With those two factors gone, the only thing preventing one from making a train is, well...there isn't one, really. Besides those two things, a train is basically just a bunch of wagons hooked together. And wagons are certainly medieval technology. The reason people didn't usually hook multiple wagons together is that they didn't have any reason to - it was easier just to hook the extra horses directly to the second wagon. If you have an 'engine' (a word used by Shakespeare, I will note) that has the excess power to pull multiple wagons, on the other hand...

Is it the name 'train' (even though that also is a perfectly fine medieval word?) Would you be happier if they called it a 'lightning caravan' instead?

J

Umm.

Take a look at the picture. That thing has a frickin' cowcather on the front! If it can fly over cows, and doesn't need rails, why would you need a cowcatcher?

This thing does not look like some example of divergent evolution. It doesn't look like something an enterprising mage with no conception of what a train looks like would cook up off the top of his head. It doesn't look like some wagons lashed together. It looks like a frickin' steam locomotive jumped tracks and stayed in the air.

I agree that a magical society could conceive of some inventions that might mirror our technological society. But the locomotive as we know it happened here for a reason. To say that there's flying trains without a really compelling reason not to just have flying freighters or a big-ass flying carpet or packing crates with wings on them or anything else that might have been imagined by real honest-to-God medieval people smacks to me of a writer just looking to throw in anything kewl without giving a thought to its origin.

EDIT: I'm willing to concede, however, that this might just be the fault of WotC's art department, and somewhere, Mr. Baker is saying to himself "What's with the cowcatcher?"

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Re: Comments from Keith Baker

The hilarious bit is that there are people accusing him and Rich Baker being relatives, and that that is the reason this setting won!

Or is it hilarious? On second thoughts, it's kinda sad.

If Keith Baker is reading this, I want to just say that I think it sounds interesting and that I will look at it before I make my purchasing decision.

I think its pathetic and rude. And I would assume the reason a lot of these comments are being made is because it was a 'contest' where a LOT of people submitted...now we're getting the obvious "Well, my setting was better than that!" junk because people are jealous.

Mr. Baker also mentioned the dinosaur thing is...*GASP!*...only part of a SMALL countries culture. There is way too little info to go around bashing this setting...hell, there's barely enough to SUPPORT it either. I'm simply interested at the moment...still neutral.

 

[Dismas]

And a gnome submersible powered by a captured water elemental would be what, then?

A gnomish Apparatus of Kiawalsh(sp?) knock off

 

[2d6]

Who said this was going to be the main setting ? Not saying it wasn't said, I'm just wondering if you could link to a quote or press release.

I was very sceptical when I first read the info on gaming report, but I decided I would hold judgement until I have the book in my hands.....

Then I saw a link to the artwork, and that made the whole thing sit a bit better with me.....again, we'll see when we know more.

I can't support that comment with a link, So I will retract it. I agree that the artwork makes things a little easier, I hope they continue to support FR and not leave it to rot like GH.

 

[Maggan]

The writing is in the book

To say that there's flying trains without a really compelling reason not to just have flying freighters or a big-ass flying carpet or packing crates with wings on them or anything else that might have been imagined by real honest-to-God medieval people smacks to me of a writer just looking to throw in anything kewl without giving a thought to its origin.

Well, since we haven't actually seen any writing about the setting apart from ad copy from blurry images on the net, I think it's a bit premature to pass judgement on the writer's intentions with the "lightning rail".

And there are several reasons to have some sort of catcher on a vehicle, apart from cows. Flying stuff, or maybe the trees are two miles high and they need to fly through the jungle, or some other reason. Ramming other vehicles maybe?

Anyways, the setting reminds me of the swedish produced Chronopia setting. And the critiscisms are very similar as well. It seems to be a very touchy subject, flying boats and magical flying land vehicles, and pervasive magic use in the society. Doesn't feel very medievial to me, but hey, to me it's more important that it feels like fantasy.

It's very different from what I was writing on for the setting search (but didn't submit), and that feels great! I also got hung up on the "should feel like Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms" talk...

Cheers!

Maggan

 

[Desdichado]

Since there's been a lot of confusion, let me clarify. To my knowledge, nobody ever said the setting should be medieval.

Zulkir, in the huge Q&A thread about the setting search when it was ongoing, said they weren't really looking for a "tech level" above medieval, although if the setting were good enough, that wasn't a hard and fast rule, just a guideline, so it could potentially be disregarded. At the seminar, apparently, Bill Slavisek stated that the technology of Eberron was also medieval, but that the world was very different from traditional, as well as very high magic, including a number of magical constructs of various types.

I have yet to see anything that would give the lie to either of those statements.

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

Re: Re: Count me (proudly) amongst the Whiners!

They didn't misrepresent themselves. You simply didn't understand what they were looking for. I don't find this setting at all incompatible with what they asked for, and I was hanging on their every word about what they wanted, having submitted three entries myself.

They said in the submission guidelines quoted above and several times on forums that they wanted something that had the flavor of Dragonlance, FR, and Greyhawk. At first I thought this was ridiculous, but I came to understand that WotC and TSR made their bones in standard fantasy, and that still represents the largest chunk of the market. While I thought it might spread them a little too thin, I understand the corporate mentality that says go with the proven winner, rather than stick your neck out.

Now, judging from what I've seen so far, you can a lot of things about this setting, but "If you like Greyhawk, you'll LOVE Eberron!" doesn't appear to be one of them.

It now appears (given some of the rhetoric bandied around on these boards and others) that their target market, namely people who like to play "standard fantasy", do not, in fact, want to play something that looks like Arcanum D20. It seems like WotC reversed their mentality halfway through the setting search. I'm not saying they're wrong to pick what might very well be the best setting in the contest, just that they shouldn't have said they wanted vanilla for months, wait until everyone entered, and then say they wanted chocolate after all.

 

[Ranes]

I love the smell of lame conclusions in the morning. It smells like...well, gamers, I guess.

drnuncheon

Spectacular Jump (to conclusion) modifiers abound, to paraphrase another poster who is wittier than I.

I've got the FRCS (and you thought it was just the way I walked). I purchased the book only for reference purposes but, if nothing else, it's a triumph of rpg book production (specifically, I am referring to the book's aesthetic impact).

I've examined and read excerpts from Ghostwalk, Ravenloft, Kalamar and decided against buying them, purely a matter of personal taste, obviously.

Skyrealms of Jorune, Tekumel, beautiful, rare things they are; captivating, neither hackneyed nor contrived...

Where was I? When this setting comes out, I'll decide whether or not to purchase it by looking through it and reading parts of it. Call my approach radical.

Until then, congratulations to the winner on his originality and good luck to everyone involved in its development.

 

[drnuncheon]

Take a look at the picture. That thing has a frickin' cowcather on the front! If it can fly over cows, and doesn't need rails, why would you need a cowcatcher?

Obviously you know more about this train than we do, since you seem to know that it can fly over cows and that it doesn't need rails. Care to fill the rest of us in? Or are you just joining the rest of the jumpers?

We don't know how high the "lightning train" can fly. If it hovers two feet off the ground, then cows may indeed be a problem even if it doesn't need rails - turning too quickly might cause it to jackknife and wreck. Or maybe it has to travel along naturally occurring ley lines. We don't know from the picture, do we?

But the locomotive as we know it happened here for a reason. To say that there's flying trains without a really compelling reason not to just have flying freighters

Look at the page before. There are flying freighters.

J

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

Obviously you know more about this train than we do, since you seem to know that it can fly over cows and that it doesn't need rails. Care to fill the rest of us in? Or are you just joining the rest of the jumpers?

We don't know how high the "lightning train" can fly. If it hovers two feet off the ground, then cows may indeed be a problem even if it doesn't need rails - turning too quickly might cause it to jackknife and wreck. Or maybe it has to travel along naturally occurring ley lines. We don't know from the picture, do we?

It was my attempt at a comical observation, but let's get geeky anyway. Let's assume this train is about the same size as a train from the early part of the 20th century, which the design seems to emulate. Let's say, such a train is about 10-12 feet tall. Given that scale, that train appears to be 5-6 feet off the ground. Seems like that'd be enough of a clearance for your average holstein, and anyway you wouldn't want that nasty-looking cowcatcher hitting old Bessie mid-section, would you? That'd be a b***h to clean off.

Look at the page before. There are flying freighters.

J

I saw it. So what would you need a train for then? Necessity is the mother of invention. Zappa, too.