WOTC, when do we see a commercial for D&D on TV???

[kenobi65]

Sure, but spending $2 to make $5 is a good way to expand. Again, its useless to speculate. If WotC is content with how much they are making right now and the size of things, then that's that. If they are running out of ideas for sourcebooks and ways to get existing player's to keep buying books, and want to try to increase sale of core material to new players, then I think its a logical next step.

Two things you should keep in mind:

1) Unlike most other RPG companies, WotC has an actual marketing department and an actual market research department. I can guarantee you that they've run the numbers on whether doing TV ads for D&D makes financial sense...and if it did, I think it's likely that you'd already be seeing those ads.

2) Unlike any other RPG company, WotC has a corporate parent in Hasbro. It's unlikely that Hasbro would OK a big, splashy (or, as you say, "kick-a$$") ad campaign for D&D unless WotC could prove it would provide a return on that investment in the near-term.

 

[Belen]

They've pretty much done this. Our own Belen Umeria is a (and I may not be getting the terminology exactly right) WOTC "Delegate". They send him all kinds of free product and in exchange he promotes D&D by running games at the local gaming store. I've seen the sorts of folks his games draw and I'd say that half to 2/3 are experienced gamers but it always seems like there is a fresh face or two in the bunch.

The delegate program is a great way to introduce people to the game. I always seem to have at least one new person who wants to try out the game. Once, I have an entire family ask me to teach them how to play. That was a lot of fun.

The funny thing, at least in my experience, is that learning how to play D&D seems to be a far bigger draw than any of the other WOTC games other than the Avalon Hill stuff. I have run Magic and DDM and had far few people show up.

As for commercials being too expensive, if a local game store (and notice that I did not add the term "friendly") can afford to run prime time commercials on Scifi and USA, then Wizards could definitely afford to run commercials in some high concentration markets.

 

[Dremmen]

Two things you should keep in mind:

1) Unlike most other RPG companies, WotC has an actual marketing department and an actual market research department. I can guarantee you that they've run the numbers on whether doing TV ads for D&D makes financial sense...and if it did, I think it's likely that you'd already be seeing those ads.

2) Unlike any other RPG company, WotC has a corporate parent in Hasbro. It's unlikely that Hasbro would OK a big, splashy (or, as you say, "kick-a$$") ad campaign for D&D unless WotC could prove it would provide a return on that investment in the near-term.

Sure kenobi, and that may be the case. This may be a mute point that they already explored and found not feasible OR Hasbro reigned them in on it.

BUT I started this thread with the topic of taboo surrounding D&D. So I still hold that another possible scenario is that maybe its not so financially unwise to run an ad but its fear of bad press from publicizing a product that a lot of people have misconceptions about. Maybe they don't want all the bible thumpers getting their panties in a bunch at seeing D&D on the TV. And my original argument had to deal with letting go of taboos and if this is the reason why we don't see the ad then that's no reason at all.

Of course, market research showing that the ad would loose them tons and tons of cash is also a reason. A very good reason and not one that I would argue with.

 

[kenobi65]

As for commercials being too expensive, if a local game store (and notice that I did not add the term "friendly") can afford to run prime time commercials on Scifi and USA, then Wizards could definitely afford to run commercials in some high concentration markets.

Ad buys on local cable (which is what you're talking about) are usually fairly inexpensive. Beyond the media cost, however, there's also the production cost. To make an ad that *doesn't* look like it's a ad for a local game store is not cheap...we're talking in the hundreds of thousands of dollars (please, trust me on this).

WotC as a whole might have that kind of money in their ad budget...but I'm not sure that the RPG division does.

And, I'm convinced that grass-roots "advertising", like the Delegate Program and Organized Play, are far more cost-effective ways to get new gamers.

 

[Rel]

And, I'm convinced that grass-roots "advertising", like the Delegate Program and Organized Play, are far more cost-effective ways to get new gamers.

I tend to agree because we're talking about a very specialized market. Game companies have always had two things in sizeable quantities: Game products and fans who are willing to do lots of work for free.

Think about it, GMing is already a "labor of love" where you spend lots of extra hours prepping things for the group to have fun. Given that many GM's would be writing adventures and rules for their home games, they've traditionally worked for relative peanuts for most game companies (I know because I used to write for ICE).

It seems only naturaly that the game companies would take advantage of this willingness to work for nearly free and say, "Hey, we've got bunches of gaming products laying around here gathering dust. Let's give this stuff for free to folks willing to try and get others involved in the hobby!" They also tend to "pay" their delegates by providing things for free that don't really cost them much anyway, like free admission to cons and stuff like that.

 

[kenobi65]

BUT I started this thread with the topic of taboo surrounding D&D. So I still hold that another possible scenario is that maybe its not so financially unwise to run an ad but its fear of bad press from publicizing a product that a lot of people have misconceptions about. Maybe they don't want all the bible thumpers getting their panties in a bunch at seeing D&D on the TV. And my original argument had to deal with letting go of taboos and if this is the reason why we don't see the ad then that's no reason at all.

A decade ago, I might have considered that. While the "stigma" isn't completely gone, it's much less pronounced. Last year, for the 30th Anniversary of D&D, WotC got a lot of PR out of it, including a story on CNN. I don't think they're particularly afraid of bad press anymore.

 

[Belen]

Which is really rather funny as BU quite often, vociferously, disapproves of D20 D&D.

That is indeed true and I also note the irony. But I will say that many of the problems he seems to have with the system are non-issues for one shot games with pre-gen characters. Aside from that I'll let him speak for himself on the issue.

I think you're misunderstanding my dislike of some of the current rules and my support of older versions for a dislike of d20. I love d20. However, I do think it goes a bit too far in removing the DM from the equation and enhancing the tactical side combat.

Also, passionate discourse on ENWorld does not necessarily mean that I run around decrying a game that I love to the world at large. I see ENWorld discussions as similiar to literary critiques. I can still be critical of a novel and enjoy it.

Finally, I love teaching new people how to play. There is a spark in their eyes that you do not find in the veterans and it helps freshen up the game. I ran a demo a few months ago and threw a zombie at a party of 3rd level characters and it was fun to watch this one kid have his character run away. Apparently, he was a big fan of resident evil.

The delegate program is great, but I am not sure how effective it is for D&D. As a delegate, we're supposed to support a lot of games (Avalon Hill, DDM, SWM, MtG, Kids Next Door, Hectomb, MLB, Neopets.) From what I have seen, a lot of delegates demo to their strengths, thus, if they love MtG, then they support it. I love D&D, so I support it.

I do not think word-of-mouth is that effective these days either. Maybe if they cross-marketed with the video games, such as ads for the tabletop in the box, or a intro movie on the game dedicated to the tabletop, then word-of-mouth would be enough, but I do think they need to go farther with D&D marketing.

So, until then, I do what I can to recruit new players and I hope that you all do the same.

(PS: The next Worldwide D&D Game Day is scheduled for Saturday, November 5, 2005. Please support it!)

 

[tetsujin28]

When will the taboo end??

Hopefully never. But I'm an old fart who really doesn't mind if the hobby doesn't grow.

 

[El Ravager]

I doubt we'll ever seen a D&D commercial on tv. But - if WotC did want to run some tv adds - I think that Spike TV, SciFi, Discovery, and the History Chan. would make great places for them.

Don't forget Cartoon Network, especially during the Adult Swim block.


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El Rav

 

[Belen]

The cartoon would absolutely require hot chicks in chainmail bikinis....


Actually, sexy knee length skirts and clothes that fit well would be better.

And the girl should be the DM.