D&D 5E WotC: Why Dark Sun Hasn't Been Revived

In an interview with YouTuber 'Bob the Worldbuilder', WotC's Kyle Brink explained why the classic Dark Sun setting has not yet seen light of day in the D&D 5E era.

I’ll be frank here, the Dark Sun setting is problematic in a lot of ways. And that’s the main reason we haven’t come back to it. We know it’s got a huge fan following and we have standards today that make it extraordinarily hard to be true to the source material and also meet our ethical and inclusion standards... We know there’s love out there for it and god we would love to make those people happy, and also we gotta be responsible.

You can listen to the clip here.

 

[Scribe]

A single book? It's 40 years of D&D and the often racist tropes that have been uncritically imported from an even longer history of pulp (and mainstream) fiction. And Paizo's clumsy handling of slavery in its campaign setting and public play events. And the minstril art in Spelljammer. And the never-ending list of movies, books, and games including slavery that are pervasive in our culture.

I see I see.

So its not about the content of a single book. I dont think (what is framing?) that the conclusion to be drawn here is a particularly good one, but if this is your perspective on it, then I see that its not just a single book taken in context despite everything Wizards has done/said, excised via errata or outright replaced or retconned over the last near 10 years.

Thats interesting.

But it would send a message, intended or not.

And what message do you believe that would be?

These were 6th graders, by the way, right in that 12+ age rating for D&D. If parents can freak over this, then the scantily clad heroes of Dark Sun, a world overrun by cruel tyrants who permit slavery and espouse eugenics while entertaining the masses with gladiatorial combat to the death are not going to immune to such insanity.

Exactly, moral panic left and right.

 

[Laurefindel]

Again, subject vs object.
The subject of Dark Sun isn’t slavery or forced eugenics.

No, but one of its subjects is survival in an oppressive world, both socially and ecologically. The subjects of slavery and eugenics contribute to that, as ugly as they are, not unlike violent deaths and famines contribute to the terror and wars of Dragonlance.

To a certain extent it can be circumvented, like how physical and emotional torture or death without dignity could be left out of the violent death and famine elements that support the war and horror themes of Dragonlance, but I believe you can only go so far until it becomes easier to make another setting/story.

Don’t get me wrong, I understand and support WotC not going ahead with DS. Slavery and eugenics go against the values they want to espouse. But I’m also with them when they say it would be hard to remove these elements and remain true to the source material.

 

[Clint_L]

I live in a country where parents in a southern state were so shocked and appalled that their kids were being taught about Renaissance art, including the works of Michelangelo, that they got the school principal fired. Calling the statue of David (among other works) "pornographic" and "potentially harmful to their children".

These were 6th graders, by the way, right in that 12+ age rating for D&D. If parents can freak over this, then the scantily clad heroes of Dark Sun, a world overrun by cruel tyrants who permit slavery and espouse eugenics while entertaining the masses with gladiatorial combat to the death are not going to immune to such insanity.

I hope they don't get their hands on my vintage copy of Deities and Demigods. That book really did corrupt my impressionable young mind. In all the best ways.

For that matter, the original Monster Manual was NSFW by modern standards! The difference with Dark Suns is that you could update it while not losing the essence of the original (unless topless sphinxes were integral to your campaign setting, I suppose).

Edit: I wish I hadn't written that, because now my brain is stuck on trying to imagine a campaign setting that relies on topless sphinxes. I blame Deities and Demigods.

 

[James Gasik]

I hope they don't get their hands on my vintage copy of Deities and Demigods. That book really did corrupt my impressionable young mind. In all the best ways.

For that matter, the original Monster Manual was NSFW by modern standards! The difference with Dark Suns is that you could update it while not losing the essence of the original (unless topless sphinxes were integral to your campaign setting, I suppose).

Edit: I wish I hadn't written that, because now my brain is stuck on trying to imagine a campaign setting that relies on topless sphinxes. I blame Deities and Demigods.

AD&D 1st Edition art was a serious draw for many a teenaged gamer, I bet! And I'm sure the morally panicked of the 80's were upset about that, but they had a more immediate target of their ire:

TEH SATAHN!

(Sure, I know it's an Efreet. You know it's an Efreet. Now try telling some church-going 80's Karen that.)

 

[Clint_L]

Has that Efreet ever eaten a carb?

 

[James Gasik]

Has that Efreet ever eaten a carb?

Dude, he lives in a City made of Brass, on a lake of oil, in the Elemental Plane of Fire! Calories don't last a full combat round there!

 

[Irlo]

And what message do you believe that would be?

That gamers’ experiences and voices that have been marginalized over the years will continue to be marginalized.

This voice, for example.

Edit: I’m about to board a plane for vacation, and I hope to make it a vacation from ENWorld as well as from work. I’ll be interested to see what develops while I’m away.

 

[Scribe]

I’m about to board a plane for vacation, and I hope to make it a vacation from ENWorld as well as from work. I’ll be interested to see what develops while I’m away.

Enjoy your vacation!

 

[Bedrockgames]

Has that Efreet ever eaten a carb?

He must have had the Total Gym. It is no coincidence that thing was invented in 1974

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

If DS is cancelled because WotC fears a "moral panic", then it is not our fault, or theirs, but by the others. And if we allow the good sense was lost, then they aren't going to stop, because they are going to demmand more and more.

I want to know if the criteria by those "modern sensibilities" are enough reasonable.

I would rather to believe the delay of Dark Sun is because reasons linked about gameplay, for example the update the psionic powers, and the change about limits for classes and species. Other possible reason is because they are working in some special event to explain the reason of the reboot of the D&D multiverse. This event could be delayed if there is a future acquisition or merger, and then more IPs would be added to the D&D multiverse.

Dark Sun can continue in other type of products: novels, comics and videogames.

* If there is a TTRPG about a distopian uchrony style "Man in the High Castle" where nazis won the WWII, could suffer a "moral panic"? Or a G.I.Joe sourcebook about an alternate timeline where world is a global dictatorship under the controll by COBRA?

* Maybe any elements aren't wellcome among the modern sensibilities, but in the update version we don't need mention them.