WotC_GregB talks about using a laptop at the game table.

[The Little Raven]

Except that the situation I posed is WotC taking their DDI ball and going home, kinda like if your cable company went out of business or decided to stop selling cable service to people. You are totally behind the service, but they pull the rug out from under you out of nowhere is when it causes issues. Which is a future possibility only, not even really a super likely situation IMO. I was just generating the scenario that I personally would be hoping to avoid and upset about most. I did mention Dragon and Dungeon as downloadables, but that was outside the issue, other then most likely making up some portion of your monthly fee for DDI.

That sucks, but it's the peril of subscribing to a service. It wouldn't be the first time a service has died in the midst of my participation, and I doubt it will be the last, but that's the way the cookie crumbles, and I accept that. Know what you're getting into before you get into it is all I can suggest.

Besides there are other venues available to pick up those missed episodes. You can buy them rather cheaply for $2 an episode at iTunes. Those ARE yours and you download them and watch however much you want. ABC also has many shows on free viewing on their website. You just have to watch the SAME commercial over and over So ABC has more and better digital options than D&D does currently as right now it is either full price for print or print price for digital. Soon it will also throw in monthly subscription price and I really do hope it all goes well, I just don't see it as anything close to as good from a consumer viewpoint as selling reasonably priced pdfs.

Sure, I can do that... with some shows, but not all. Carnivale, for example, was an awesome show that got the rug pulled and now can only be found on DVDs or pirated on the internet.

You also mentioned distributors not being happy about cheaper pdfs, which is interesting b/c other game companies sell their pdfs at half price yet still get into the same stores that WotC does.

Comparing someone like Paizo or Goodman to WotC, in terms of how much revenue their products generate, is silly. If WotC started undercutting game stores with reduced-cost PDFs, the stores would suffer greatly because WotC holds such a huge market share. If Paizo did the same, the stores probably wouldn't notice at all, because most don't carry things unless it's from one of the big dogs (and no, Paizo is not a big dog). WotC needs retail stores far more than any of the d20 publishers, so they can't afford to alienate retailers and distributors.

I know that retail stores threatening not to carry companies is one of the main reasons for video games having the same downloadable price as they do in stores typically, but I have not heard teh same for the RPG business.

Might be because you don't pay as much attention to this stuff. I remember a huge furor going on when DriveThruRPG hit it big, and they explained why they weren't selling reduced-cost PDFs.

I mean, even Paizo sells over-priced PDFs, but I don't see complaints about those.

 

[SSquirrel]

Wasn't trying to compare them directly, I was just pointing out that other companies do just that and I have yet to see any distributors yelling about this issue. As far as I know, it isn't an issue w/distributors and we're just speculating that it is. Unless someone has a link for me to read about WotC explaining just this heh.

Actually I do recall the uproar and I refused to buy any pdfs until they were at a reasonable price. After reasonable prices I did purchase from them. I seem to recall more people complaining about watermarked pdfs from them than anything else tho. I could be remembering wrong. I don't buy anything from Paizo so I don't have any idea what they sell their pdfs for.

 

[MaelStorm]

Sorry I'm not buying it. There are a plethora of scanned books that people bought and where still inclined to illegally share on a P2P. Me? I wouldn't go thru the effort, but there are people who will. I wouldn't even bother sharing a free file, it's not worth my time. There are people however who go so far as to remove the watermarked name on a PDF and share it on a P2P network. WotC didn't "make" anyone do this, the person made the decision. Even with the current DDI there will be pirated copies that'll make there way onto the internet. WotC won't have "made" these people do it.

Even offering a pdf for cheap on the DDI doesn't garentee that there will be people who will pirate it for free

Sorry while I see where you're coming from it's the "WotC is making people more likely to pirate" thing which is bothering me.

There's a problem with internet piracy and it's not by trying to counter the problem by offering unattractive solutions to their customers like thrashing the OGL free database and then come up with a paid subscription subscription service that they will solve this problem. WotC know they've suffered from loss of book sale in the past because of internet piracy. First off you have to acknowledge there's a problem and then look at all the alternative solution to curb this problem. If there are customers out there who still think an illegal PDF is more attractive than their current solution (DDI), then they're not taking full responsibility regarding that problem because they did not use all the existing solution to their advantage.

If they could come up with: you can pay 5$ per month for package A (only archive), or you could also pay 10$ per month for package B (archive + magazine) and then if you want everything you can pay 15$ a month for package C. Plus we also have an online store accessible to everyone where you can buy ebooks, then they're offering something for everyone's need, or covering all the base. That's being fully responsible.

EDIT: The rest of the crowd that continue to do internet piracy even with all the options I presented above are people that simply would never change their attitude anyway. But WotC would not be responsible for not offering something for everyone's need because they really did all that was in their power regarding that problem.

 

[The Little Raven]

That's being fully responsible.

The only one being irresponsible is the guy going onto Kazaa and downloading Exemplars of Evil. He either needs to go through the legitimate channels to attain the product, or needs to accept the fact that he can't get it in the form he wants without illicit means. If he can't or won't do either of those, then he is the one at fault for pirating the material.

People put out material for reasonable prices all the time, and people still pirate it because some people just feel entitled to getting what they want without paying the cost.

 

[MaelStorm]

The only one being irresponsible is the guy going onto Kazaa and downloading Exemplars of Evil. He either needs to go through the legitimate channels to attain the product, or needs to accept the fact that he can't get it in the form he wants without illicit means. If he can't or won't do either of those, then he is the one at fault for pirating the material.

People put out material for reasonable prices all the time, and people still pirate it because some people just feel entitled to getting what they want without paying the cost.

I agree with you. But for using laptop to play D&D session everywhere you want, I still think PDF is clearly a better option than DDI because you can be offline and still be fully operational.

 

[Mirtek]

Welcome to the world of subscription services.

And that's why they are a stupid idea for many people and thus WotC will not get the money from this many people unless they offer them something with lasting value

 

[wedgeski]

So anyway... did anyone read what he said about character theme songs? Nominate an appropriate theme song to represent your character, and when it shuffles up on the background playlist, your character is 'in the zone' and (I assume) gets bonuses to whatever they're doing.

What an *awesome* idea.

 

[Kestrel]

I use a computer to manage the 8 gigs of music we use during our session and turn the screen away, hiding the entire thing but have the surround sound speakers mounted throughout our gaming room. I use iTunes to manage track names (as I assigned "themes" to specific locales) and use Atmosphere Deluxe in order to generate natural atmosphere for day, night, summer, winter, hot summer day, thunderstorms, etc... (go and buy it NOW).

I just downloaded the free version. Thanks for the heads up on this! Very cool.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Except your (b) completely ignores the very real relationship they have with distributors and retailers, who will not be happy (and lack of happiness in that field tends to impact revenue) at being undercut by Wizards selling a reduced cost PDF.

If WotC had stuck with their "you must buy the book to unlock the PDF" system, this wouldn't be an issue.

And again, the assertion that it is WotC's fault that people steal/pirate/acquire/whatever books is simply stupid.

Again, nobody's saying it's their fault. The point is that if there were a way of getting a PDF legitimately, fewer people would download pirate PDFs, and instead give money to WotC. However, if no PDF is available legitimately, then the only way to get a PDF if you need one is to download a pirate one. WotC have the opportunity to make some extra cash and avoid getting into an adversarial relationship with their customers over this issue.

People are going to pirate books no matter what. The question is, is there going to be an alternative for those who want a PDF version to supplement their legitimately-purchased hardbacks. The answer, at the moment, is "not unless you download it off usenet."

If you stop paying your cable bill, you'll have paid all this money for nothing, since you don't get to keep what you watched. Welcome to the world of subscription services.

I don't pay for cable. I buy DVDs of series that I know I will like.

edit: Oh, and I've got about 10 years worth of VHS cassettes in my basement of various shows I taped over the years. So yes, I did get to keep what I watched.

Also, this model is foreign to the tabletop RPG market. I don't see why we need to welcome it with open arms as though it were simply inevitable and we had all better get used to it. WotC changed their minds once. They can change their minds again.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

And that's why they are a stupid idea for many people and thus WotC will not get the money from this many people unless they offer them something with lasting value

Yeah, I think the point here is that the D&D rules are a product, not a service. Virtual Tabletop? Service. Fine. But once I've paid for an electronic version I should get to keep the electronic version.