WotC's Nathan Stewart: "Story, Story, Story"; and IS D&D a Tabletop Game?

Forbes spoke to WotC's Brand Director & Executive Producer for Dungeons & Dragons, who talked about the 5th Edition launch and his vision for D&D's future. The interview is fairly interesting - it confirms or repeats some information we already know, and also delves a little into the topic of D&D as a wider brand, rather than as a tabletop roleplaying game.

In the interview, he reiterates previous statements that this is the biggest D&D launch ever, in terms of both money and units sold.

[lq]We are story, story, story. The story drives everything.[/lq]

He repeats WoTC's emphasis on storylines, confirming the 1-2 stories per year philosphy. "We are story, story, story. The story drives everything. The need for new rules, the new races, new classes is just based on what’s going to really make this adventure, this story, this kind kind of theme happen." He goes on to say that "We’re not interested in putting out more books for books’ sake... there’s zero plans for a Player’s Handbook 2 any time on the horizon."

As for settings, he confirms that "we’re going to stay in the Forgotten Realms for the foreseeable future." That'll disappoint some folks, I'm sure, but it is their biggest setting, commercially.

Stewart is not "a hundred percent comfortable" with the status of digital tools because he felt like "we took a great step backwards."

[lq]Dungeons and Dragons stopped being a tabletop game years or decades ago. [/lq]

His thoughts on D&D's identity are interesting, too. He mentions that "Dungeons and Dragons stopped being a tabletop game years or decades ago". I'm not sure what that means. His view for the future of the brand includes video games, movies, action figures, and more: "This is no secret for anyone here, but the big thing I want to see is just a triple-A RPG video game. I want to see Baldur’s Gate 3, I want to see a huge open-world RPG. I would love movies about Dungeons and Dragons, or better yet, serialized entertainment where we’re doing seasons of D&D stories and things like Forgotten Realms action figures… of course I’d love that, I’m the biggest geek there is. But at the end of the day, the game’s what we’re missing in the portfolio."

You can read the full interview here.

 

[Agamon]

I think WotC is giving a fish to someone, as opposed to teaching them how to fish for themselves. That is, the "story, story, story!" thing may work to bring in a new player or three, but it isn't going to keep them here. That is the fatal flaw I see, and I'm betting it's going to bite them in the azz in the long run.

Fatal flaw? Which version of D&D started off with a This-Is-How-You-Make-Your-Own-Homebrew book instead of adventures? There might be some special snowflakes that built themselves their own living, breathing world for their very first game of D&D, but most of us cut our teeth on published stuff before getting the creative juices flowing. And then there are those that don't make up their own stuff even after years of playing. A lot of groups play this way and there's nothing wrong, let alone fatalistic, with that.

Oh well, at least the core rules are rock solid and easy to use with other, previous editions. It's just sad that one of the things I was looking forward to ...spending money on a currently supported edition of D&D... isn't going to happen.

Sad you have to play a game without having to continually spend money? Okay....

 

[I'm A Banana]

The problem is that for some reason... D&D has not been able to shake the stigma that's been attached to it... even though numerous other geek related things have successfully done so. I honestly am not sure why but that's where I think the first steps in utilizing the brand should begin... some kind of mainstream PR campaign... IMO, of course.

I don't know that I'd agree with this. From where I'm sitting near Hipstertown USA (on the East Coast anyway), nerd culture is pretty hip right now, and that includes D&D. It's a little quaint, a little retro, a little ridiculous, and too much of a time sink for a lot of people (one evening a week is a LOT of time to give up!), but fondly regarded. Grown-ups with actual jobs are having Game of Thrones viewing parties followed by games of D&D. Yuppie parents are bestowing it on their children. It's a thing that folks know about and chuckle about, but are curious about - a world they don't know much about.

Where D&D languishes a bit is that there's not a good adult-oriented media property for it. Peter Jackson's movies are sophisticated and high-quality entertainment. Game of Thrones is an HBO show involving violence and drama and death and dongs and dragons. D&D has a kid's show from the '80's, a few good video games from the '90's, that awful movie, and some nostalgia for FR books.

The culture's ready. The issue with D&D-branded material is that so much of it is not good, and then what is good tends to be old or only really good if you're 12. The game has come out of the basement, but for those people without 4 hrs/week to spend on the BEST expression of D&D, there's not a lot out there for 'em.

For them, I don't know that a big-time high-quality video game like Nate's on about is going to do a lot (the competition there is fierce and I don't know that there's a lot of audience to gain there), but shop your high-quality, high-tension action-adventure series to Netflix and you might just have the national pop zeitgeist for a few weeks. A game is kind of a no-brainer, though, and likely something that's easier to do from where they're sitting.

It just can't be a mediocre game.

 

[Dire Bare]

That was one of the things that I miss about the D&D Multi-verse. I loved DM-ing in Greyhawk and having my players stumble upon a Spelljamming vessel, or accidentally walk into the Mists of Ravenloft, or travel the outer planes by first visiting Sigil.

You can still do all of that with 5E, if you still have your old classic D&D books (or purchase the digital editions on dndclassics.com).

I understand to a point, it would be nice if WotC could provide the level of output we enjoyed during the 2E era (and to a lesser extent, the 3E and 4E era). But it simply isn't viable for WotC to support D&D in this way. If it was, that's what they would be doing. And as nostalgic as I am for the "good old days", I couldn't afford the time and money to keep up with that level of support anyway. I am part of the demographic WotC is targeting now, those with splat-fatigue. We are legion.

But, if you have the time and the inclination, using classic D&D material with the new rules is EASY.

 

[Imaro]

I don't know that I'd agree with this. From where I'm sitting near Hipstertown USA (on the East Coast anyway), nerd culture is pretty hip right now, and that includes D&D. It's a little quaint, a little retro, a little ridiculous, and too much of a time sink for a lot of people (one evening a week is a LOT of time to give up!), but fondly regarded. Grown-ups with actual jobs are having Game of Thrones viewing parties followed by games of D&D. Yuppie parents are bestowing it on their children. It's a thing that folks know about and chuckle about, but are curious about - a world they don't know much about.

Where D&D languishes a bit is that there's not a good adult-oriented media property for it. Peter Jackson's movies are sophisticated and high-quality entertainment. Game of Thrones is an HBO show involving violence and drama and death and dongs and dragons. D&D has a kid's show from the '80's, a few good video games from the '90's, that awful movie, and some nostalgia for FR books.

The culture's ready. The issue with D&D-branded material is that so much of it is not good, and then what is good tends to be old or only really good if you're 12. The game has come out of the basement, but for those people without 4 hrs/week to spend on the BEST expression of D&D, there's not a lot out there for 'em.

For them, I don't know that a big-time high-quality video game like Nate's on about is going to do a lot (the competition there is fierce and I don't know that there's a lot of audience to gain there), but shop your high-quality, high-tension action-adventure series to Netflix and you might just have the national pop zeitgeist for a few weeks. A game is kind of a no-brainer, though, and likely something that's easier to do from where they're sitting.

It just can't be a mediocre game.

I honestly wonder if this is about geography... I'm in the midwest... and it feels like D&D still has this stigma about it... I work at an IT consulting company and we discuss the latest episode of GoT or the new Daredevil show on Netflix at work... geek out about the new Star Wars trailer even have the a casual conversation about video games and no one bats an eye... but there is still the rare offhand joke about D&D that gets thrown about every so often... or the sense that it's something most played early in life but have left behind... perhaps it is the fact that it's looked at as "for kids" but so were videogames at one time. Personally I'm not sure why it's singled out in this way, but I've noticed it.

 

[redrick]

I'm pretty sure the answer to your first question is "very few", but I suspect sales aren't the point.

One of D&D's problems is that, despite having 40 years of history behind it, it has actually generated very few recognisable characters that can be licensed, and many of the ones it does have are problematic: Dragonlance is tainted by that crappy animated film, Strahd is a knock-off of the public-domain Dracula, and Drizzt's skin tone makes a film awkward.

The other problem they have is that you can't plan for something to gain traction with the audience - some things work, many fail. Marvel has hundreds of characters, but how many people could name more than a dozen?

So part of the reason for the emphasis on story is to generate IP and characters that might gain traction, and that could then be licensed out. It seems ToD hasn't done that, and it doesn't look like PotA will either, but maybe that "Alice in Wonderland" story? Or the pirate-themed one? Or something. But in a few years, they may find we're all talking about something they've put out, and then that's the one they'll look to build on. (And as with venture capital, or indeed the Marvel universe, one big success pays for an awful lot of relative failures.)

Hiya.

I think WotC is giving a fish to someone, as opposed to teaching them how to fish for themselves. That is, the "story, story, story!" thing may work to bring in a new player or three, but it isn't going to keep them here. That is the fatal flaw I see, and I'm betting it's going to bite them in the azz in the long run.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, from the sound of where this "brand marketing guy" is trying to take D&D...looks like WotC is going to loose out on at least 5 new sources of income with regards to 5th edition; nobody at my table is interested in non-RPG D&D stuff. We don't care and aren't interested in "story, story, story!" stuff they put out...we create our own stories, even if they are based on someone else's core-idea (re: older, 1e style adventure modules). We've tried to play AP's... to date we've never finished one. After one or two books, everyone sees all the railroady nature of stuff and it becomes painful to play. The players can see exactly what's going on when "suddenly, NPC #14 shows up and exclaims that they need somebody to come quickly as the dock is being attacked by fish-monsters!". It's not an interesting random encounter, it's not something that happens every month or so in this location...no...it's a plot hook. And the players know it. They know that if they don't go down to the docks and fight they fish-guys, then they are going to derail the plot or the DM will have to retro-cram something else so that the "story" can continue. The players all feel obligated to go fight the fish-guys...not because they want to, but because they have to. Ergo...our AP endevours have been somewhat less than stellar. If WotC thinks the AP thing is a good move, with the pretty much exclusion to anything else, I think they are sorely mistaken.

Oh well, at least the core rules are rock solid and easy to use with other, previous editions. It's just sad that one of the things I was looking forward to ...spending money on a currently supported edition of D&D... isn't going to happen.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

But isn't the DMG teaching people how to fish? There's a little bit in that book about running published adventures, but most of the DMG is about homebrewing your own content, at least to some degree.

 

[Harry Dresden]

I don't know that I'd agree with this. From where I'm sitting near Hipstertown USA (on the East Coast anyway), nerd culture is pretty hip right now, and that includes D&D. It's a little quaint, a little retro, a little ridiculous, and too much of a time sink for a lot of people (one evening a week is a LOT of time to give up!), but fondly regarded. Grown-ups with actual jobs are having Game of Thrones viewing parties followed by games of D&D. Yuppie parents are bestowing it on their children. It's a thing that folks know about and chuckle about, but are curious about - a world they don't know much about.

Where D&D languishes a bit is that there's not a good adult-oriented media property for it. Peter Jackson's movies are sophisticated and high-quality entertainment. Game of Thrones is an HBO show involving violence and drama and death and dongs and dragons. D&D has a kid's show from the '80's, a few good video games from the '90's, that awful movie, and some nostalgia for FR books.

The culture's ready. The issue with D&D-branded material is that so much of it is not good, and then what is good tends to be old or only really good if you're 12. The game has come out of the basement, but for those people without 4 hrs/week to spend on the BEST expression of D&D, there's not a lot out there for 'em.

For them, I don't know that a big-time high-quality video game like Nate's on about is going to do a lot (the competition there is fierce and I don't know that there's a lot of audience to gain there), but shop your high-quality, high-tension action-adventure series to Netflix and you might just have the national pop zeitgeist for a few weeks. A game is kind of a no-brainer, though, and likely something that's easier to do from where they're sitting.

It just can't be a mediocre game.

The problem is D&D itself is too broad.

Also, what can D&D give the audience that Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, Twilight, Star Wars, and all the numerous other fantasy movies, hasn'thasn't already given?

 

[I'm A Banana]

I honestly wonder if this is about geography... I'm in the midwest... and it feels like D&D still has this stigma about it... I work at an IT consulting company and we discuss the latest episode of GoT or the new Daredevil show on Netflix at work... geek out about the new Star Wars trailer even have the a casual conversation about video games and no one bats an eye... but there is still the rare offhand joke about D&D that gets thrown about every so often... or the sense that it's something most played early in life but have left behind... perhaps it is the fact that it's looked at as "for kids" but so were videogames at one time. Personally I'm not sure why it's singled out in this way, but I've noticed it.

Yeah, adults in the communities I run with in Brooklyn aren't concerned with something being "for kids" by and large - if it's fun, they want in on it, too. Though large articles have been written about the extended adolescence as a result...

The problem is D&D itself is too broad.

Also, what can D&D give the audience that Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, Percy Jackson, Twilight, Star Wars, and all the numerous other fantasy movies, hasn'thasn't already given?

I dunno that I'd agree with that, either. I mean, D&D is a very big tent, don't get me wrong, but that just means that there's literally an INFINITY of things you can do with it. It adapts itself quite well to whatever the folks want to do with it. That means it's not a straightforward process of "turn this narrative into a movie," but it does mean that a huge diversity of elements can live under the D&D umbrella and not be outside of it.

And given that there's still super hero movies, and war movies, and crime movies, I don't think uniqueness plays a tremendous role in product consumption. It will need to be distinct, but that's an issue of individual writers and producers and directors, not of the brand itself.

Y'know what might be fun in a D&D movie? A home-loving halfling, a boy wizard, a sexy vampire, and a robe-clad religious figure go slay a dark wizard who is leading an army of evil vampires to take over the world.

I mean, the best D&D *games* are often just fantasy genre stuff mashed together and molded into a shape, why not for movies?

 

[Hand of Evil]

The key word I take out of this is BRAND. Sounds like they are going to push other avenues of media, be it books, movie, TV show, electronic gaming, etc. and then support the story that there is interest in.

 

[Tony Vargas]

One of. I said ONE OF. Jeez, people.

OK, let I'll be a bit more explicit.

Paizo probably stuck with the OGL and launched Pathfinder because WotC ended their liscence for Dragon/Dungeon, presented no for the new ed OGL at launch, and first version of the GSL to appear was extremely unfavorable to 3pps like Paizo. When presented with the choice of either continuing to use the OGL, or never being able to use it again and give WotC the right to torpedo your products at their whim, Paizo made the obvious choice.

There may well be other possible reasons but, they do not include:

one of the things that caused Paizo to spin off on their own in the first place: that 4E couldn't tell the kind of stories they wanted to tell.

Because Paizo could, indeed, have used 4e to tell adventure-path style of stories. Really, when it comes to D&D as a narrative or story-telling game, 4e is not as bad the other editions - though it's no indie game, of course.

Hiya.

I think WotC is giving a fish to someone, as opposed to teaching them how to fish for themselves. That is, the "story, story, story!" thing may work to bring in a new player or three, but it isn't going to keep them here. That is the fatal flaw I see, and I'm betting it's going to bite them in the azz in the long run.

OK, I can see where you get that.

OTOH, the DMG is all about 'how to fish' - how to create a campaign, how to re-design the game to work for that campaign, etc. In that sense, people are asking for some more fish (more splat books), when they already know how to fish.

 

[tyrlaan]

Yeah, adults in the communities I run with in Brooklyn aren't concerned with something being "for kids" by and large - if it's fun, they want in on it, too. Though large articles have been written about the extended adolescence as a result...

I've come to the conclusion that the entire concept of "adult" is a BS construct, probably put in place by people who for one reason or another can't find ways to enjoy their lives and wanted a way to spread their woe. The whole "misery loves company" shtick.

But that's probably a bit off topic at this point...